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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4  Previous   Next
Country of Origin - how to decide?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantBattling Butler
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 811
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Quoting johnd:
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Quoting Battling Butler:
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When has the Academy Awards ever had anything to do with artistic expression? Just another case of American imperialism. "This is good, so it must be made in the good old US of A."


That's pure B.S. I never implied anything of the kind, and neither did anyone else on this forum. I'll be the first to state that the current Bush administration is one of the most imperialistic in the history of the world. But your comments are nonetheless highly offensive and completely out of line.  My point is that the country of New Zealand did not enter LOTR as a nominee in the Foreign Movie category.

I maintain that the country of the primary studio releasing a film should be persuasive as to the CoO
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,198
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Quoting johnd:
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Quoting Battling Butler:
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If LOTR should be considered a New Zealand production, why was it nominated (and subsequently won) numerous Academy Awards all in the the domestic categories, and none in the Foreign Film category?


When has the Academy Awards ever had anything to do with artistic expression? Just another case of American imperialism. "This is good, so it must be made in the good old US of A."


Is it at all possible to make your point without taking shots at another country? 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantjohnd
Evening, poetry lovers.
Registered: March 13, 2007
Australia Posts: 298
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:

Is it at all possible to make your point without taking shots at another country? 


Nope 

Of course, I did not have a shot at any country, just those that feel that money is the prime motivator for all things good.

However, if you have a guilty conscious, please feel free to see this as another indicator of why you might have such.
 Last edited: by johnd
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantjohnd
Evening, poetry lovers.
Registered: March 13, 2007
Australia Posts: 298
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Quoting Battling Butler:
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But your comments are nonetheless highly offensive and completely out of line.


As is the attempt to attribute the artistic output of one country to another based purely on money. I know to some people money can buy everything, but that is rather a sad view of life.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,198
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Quoting johnd:
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Quoting Unicus69:
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Is it at all possible to make your point without taking shots at another country? 


Nope 

Of course, I did not have a shot at any country, just those that feel that money is the prime motivator for all things good.


Keep telling yourself that.  I guess it makes you feel good about yourself to take a shot at a country, which you clearly did, and then pretend you didn't do it.  I will keep this in mind whenever I read your posts in the future. 

Quote:
However, if you have a guilty conscious, please feel free to see this as another indicator of why you might have such.


Why would I have a guilty concience?  I actually came to the same conclusion that you did.  However, I based my conclusion on the history of the film project and didn't need to insult any individual or country to get my point across. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantjohnd
Evening, poetry lovers.
Registered: March 13, 2007
Australia Posts: 298
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Quoting Unicus69:
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Keep telling yourself that.  I guess it makes you feel good about yourself to take a shot at a country, which you clearly did, and then pretend you didn't do it.  I will keep this in mind whenever I read your posts in the future. 


OK. Do I like America as a political and social entity? No, of course not, just as most of the world does not at the moment. Do I like Americans as a people? Generally, yes, though there are, of course, some exceptions. The action of attempting to claim "ownership" over something produced by someone else does not improve that perception. It might seem minor, but it happens far too often to let it go uncommented on.

Also, it seems, somehow, incredibly trivial - "We have so much, but it just isn't enough."

Quote:

Why would I have a guilty concience?  I actually came to the same conclusion that you did.  However, I based my conclusion on the history of the film project and didn't need to insult any individual or country to get my point across. 


I'm not surprised you are confused. After putting forward the same argument, I am told it is all about money, nothing else. A reflection on a sad state of affairs. If you feel that I am insulting America as a whole, then it seems that there is some underlying guilt about the current state of affairs in that country. Sorry, I can't help you with that guilt.

Personally, I would like to see COO disappear, as it offers no real value if it is going to be misused in this way.
 Last edited: by johnd
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,198
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Quoting johnd:
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Quote:
Why would I have a guilty concience?  I actually came to the same conclusion that you did.  However, I based my conclusion on the history of the film project and didn't need to insult any individual or country to get my point across. 


I'm not surprised you are confused. After putting forward the same argument, I am told it is all about money, nothing else. A reflection on a sad state of affairs. If you feel that I am insulting America as a whole, then it seems that there is some underlying guilt about the current state of affairs in that country. Sorry, I can't help you with that guilt.


First, you did not put forth the same argument I did...if you did, I missed it.  As for the guilt, still don't know what you are going on about.  You clearly insulted America as a whole.  You have done it more than once.  Because I see that it is an insult, somehow I have some kind of guilt?  So, by your logic, anytime I feel someone is insulting someone else...or an entire group...it is because I have some underlying guilt?  That makes no sense at all. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantGraveworm
Registered: April 7, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 357
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This is just my opinion but it's not about who had the most to do with getting the film made and certainly not about money. It's country of ORIGIN not country of prduction. A lot of the money would have come from bank loans and those banks would have reviewed their investment almost as much as a production company they have nothing to do with country of origin.
Origin is where a film starts. If a group of people are commisioned by a company to make a film then thats when the film originates and the country of the commisioning company is the country of origin, if a group of people or companies put together a film project then pitch that to a company to get the money then that company is not the country of origin it's the group who put the project together.
 Last edited: by Graveworm
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantjohnd
Evening, poetry lovers.
Registered: March 13, 2007
Australia Posts: 298
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Quoting Unicus69:
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  That makes no sense at all. 


Then I guess there is no hope for you at all. I feel so sorry for you. Conversation closed.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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Quoting Battling Butler:
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If LOTR should be considered a New Zealand production, why was it nominated (and subsequently won) numerous Academy Awards all in the the domestic categories, and none in the Foreign Film category?


Because the Foreign Film category is actually called "Film in a Foreign Language".
Interesting that you assume that all the other categories are "domestic".

Because Pan's Lanbyrinth won the Oscar for Art Direction, does that now make it a US film?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpompel9
Registered: March 13, 2007
Norway Posts: 467
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Quoting Battling Butler:
Quote:
Quoting johnd:
Quote:
Quoting Battling Butler:
Quote:
When has the Academy Awards ever had anything to do with artistic expression? Just another case of American imperialism. "This is good, so it must be made in the good old US of A."


That's pure B.S. I never implied anything of the kind, and neither did anyone else on this forum. I'll be the first to state that the current Bush administration is one of the most imperialistic in the history of the world. But your comments are nonetheless highly offensive and completely out of line.  My point is that the country of New Zealand did not enter LOTR as a nominee in the Foreign Movie category.

I maintain that the country of the primary studio releasing a film should be persuasive as to the CoO


Yes, but New Line didn't produce the movie. Wingnut did. New Line just came with the money.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBerak
Bibamus morieundum est!
Registered: May 10, 2007
Norway Posts: 1,059
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Quoting pompel9:
Quote:
Quoting Battling Butler:
Quote:
Quoting johnd:
Quote:
Quoting Battling Butler:
Quote:
When has the Academy Awards ever had anything to do with artistic expression? Just another case of American imperialism. "This is good, so it must be made in the good old US of A."


That's pure B.S. I never implied anything of the kind, and neither did anyone else on this forum. I'll be the first to state that the current Bush administration is one of the most imperialistic in the history of the world. But your comments are nonetheless highly offensive and completely out of line.  My point is that the country of New Zealand did not enter LOTR as a nominee in the Foreign Movie category.

I maintain that the country of the primary studio releasing a film should be persuasive as to the CoO


Yes, but New Line didn't produce the movie. Wingnut did. New Line just came with the money.


Several of the credited Executive Producers of LOTR are indeed New Line representatives; Mark Ordesky, Michael Lynne and Robert Shaye....

To suggest that the company providing the money to make a film is not the producing company is proposterus to say the least - check your facts Pompel.

And furthermore - to get back on the topic - we need a common ground to base our contributions on, it is fairly evident that there are lots of different opinions as to which country deserves the CoO credit, but personally I tend to agree with those who suggest using the company first credited as the CoO. (That would leave LOTR as USA CoO) 
Berak

It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 5,459
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Quoting Berak:
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And furthermore - to get back on the topic - we need a common ground to base our contributions on, it is fairly evident that there are lots of different opinions as to which country deserves the CoO credit, but personally I tend to agree with those who suggest using the company first credited as the CoO. (That would leave LOTR as USA CoO) 


But that would not work for a lot of smaller productions, as the first company credited tends to be the distributor, who may have only bought the film after production.
Using the first production company listed would avoid this (and rightfully make LOTR an NZ CoO  )
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Quoting johnd:
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Quoting Rifter:
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True.  Peter Jackson went to New Line and pitched the movie.  New Line hired Jackson and Wingnut to do it.  They provided the money, without which it wouldn't have been made - certainly not the masterpiece we got at any rate!  So definitely a US production.


Definitely a New Zealand production. Artistic vision is everything. The money could have come from anywhere.


But it didn't, did it?  I don't give a damn one way or the other.  Who actually does the work is irrelevant.  The guy that pays the freight can hire anybody he wants to, be it local, regional, or international.  He pays the bills, he calls the shots, HIS company gets the credit.  In this case, that is New Line, which is US.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Quoting Squirrelecto:
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Johnd wins.




And just what is this?
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Quoting johnd:
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:


Keep telling yourself that.  I guess it makes you feel good about yourself to take a shot at a country, which you clearly did, and then pretend you didn't do it.  I will keep this in mind whenever I read your posts in the future. 


OK. Do I like America as a political and social entity? No, of course not, just as most of the world does not at the moment. Do I like Americans as a people? Generally, yes, though there are, of course, some exceptions. The action of attempting to claim "ownership" over something produced by someone else does not improve that perception. It might seem minor, but it happens far too often to let it go uncommented on.

Also, it seems, somehow, incredibly trivial - "We have so much, but it just isn't enough."

Quote:

Why would I have a guilty concience?  I actually came to the same conclusion that you did.  However, I based my conclusion on the history of the film project and didn't need to insult any individual or country to get my point across. 


I'm not surprised you are confused. After putting forward the same argument, I am told it is all about money, nothing else. A reflection on a sad state of affairs. If you feel that I am insulting America as a whole, then it seems that there is some underlying guilt about the current state of affairs in that country. Sorry, I can't help you with that guilt.

Personally, I would like to see COO disappear, as it offers no real value if it is going to be misused in this way.


Oh, for pity's sake, get over yourself.  Why don't we all gather and have a group hug, and a good cry at the fact that money is what makes the world go round.

You can rant and rave and knash your teeth, and bemoan the state of artistic endeavor in the world all you want to, but when push comes to shove, its the guys with the bucks who call the shots.  Most directors have pet projects that they want to do just for the sake of the artistic value, and most of them wait for years or even decades before they get to do them.  The movie business is just that - a huge business - and businesses run on money.  Those who have it move ahead and invest and hope to make more for their stockholders.  Those who don't run around begging to borrow it from those who do.  And if they get the money, they have to accept conditions under which it is given, such as who owns the film, who gets the credit for making it, etc.  That's the way it works, and has since day one.

And, as I said, I couldn't care less what the country of origin is, so don't even try to go down that road.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
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