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Aspect Ratio and Formats question for the teckies.
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantTouti
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I'm auditing the profile for "Addicted to love", UPC: 0-85391-52522-6, it's a double-sided with 4:3 and 16x9 versions.  The current profiles has the video formats as follows.

Full Frame
Widescreen
16x9 Enhanced
Ratio: 1.85:1

My question is, shouldn't it be Pan & Scan instead of full frame ?  My understanding of full frame is that it is for movies that were filmed with a aspect ratio of 1.33:1.  I know it may seem like a stupid question but I'm not sure and I want to double-check before changing it.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Touti:
Quote:
I'm auditing the profile for "Addicted to love", UPC: 0-85391-52522-6, it's a double-sided with 4:3 and 16x9 versions.  The current profiles has the video formats as follows.

Full Frame
Widescreen
16x9 Enhanced
Ratio: 1.85:1

My question is, shouldn't it be Pan & Scan instead of full frame ?  My understanding of full frame is that it is for movies that were filmed with a aspect ratio of 1.33:1.  I know it may seem like a stupid question but I'm not sure and I want to double-check before changing it.


Absolutely.  Its easy to tell too.  Find a scene in the 16x9 version where one of the characters moves from one side of the frame to the other, but the frame itself stays static.  Find the same scene in the 4x3 and watch that character.  If it follows the character, the background frame will shift as he moves. That's a dead giveaway to P&S.
John

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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Typically 1.85's will be Full screen as opposed to P &S ( but NOT always). They are usually matted and more information will be revealed at the top and bottom, than would be in the Widescreen version. This added information can be very entertaining from time to time, revealing boom mikes, part of a crew person, or in one of the more famous instances from Pee Wee's Big Adventure a scene where Pee Wee is apparently pulling endless lengths of chain from his bicycle basket, ih the FF version it is revealed that there is no bottom in the basket and there is a pile of chain on the pavement . Coupling this with Rifter's information should help you figure it out.

Skip
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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMithi
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Touti:
Quote:
My question is, shouldn't it be Pan & Scan instead of full frame ?

Depends on what is is. 
The 1,33:1 can be both, a pan and scan of the 1,85:1 or an opened matte, thus full frame
Have a look at a frame with good background, e.g. a street scene, on both versions (make screenshots if you can play them on your computer).
If the 1,33:1 lacks information left and right, it's p&s, if it has the same width and more picture at the top and the bottom than on the 1,85:1 side, it is an opened matte.

cya, Mithi
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantTouti
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Thanks to you guys, I apparently always misunderstood Full Frame.  I thought the term only applied to movies that were filmed only in a 1.33:1 ratio and that P&S applied to ANY "standard version" of a widescreen movie.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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Actually you have the correct definition of Full Frame, Touti. The "correct" technical description for what is being described is Full Screen or Pan & Scan. Old TV shows are Full frame, MOST movies pre-1955 are FF. Pee Wee's Big Adventure would WS/FS technically, but we only use the single term.

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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantTouti
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So are you saying that any 1.33:1 version of a widescreen movie is a P&S and not Full Frame or am I getting you wrong ?

Using the method Rifter suggested I couldn't find any scene that definitely shows which one it would be so I didn't change it in my contribution but Full Frame seems wrong to me.


Edit: I'm gonna try Mithi's method this afternoon, I missed that post this morning.
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 Last edited: by Touti
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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As I said typically 1.85s are matted to FS(FF for our purposes), but this is nNOT always true. If you can't  figure it out then you are doing the right thing by not changing. Addicted to Love, if I had to guess, would moist likely be matted to FF as opposed to P&S, but that is just an educated guess.

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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwidescreenforever
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Typically 1.85's will be Full screen as opposed to P &S ( but NOT always). They are usually matted and more information will be revealed at the top and bottom, than would be in the Widescreen version. This added information can be very entertaining from time to time, revealing boom mikes, part of a crew person, or in one of the more famous instances from Pee Wee's Big Adventure a scene where Pee Wee is apparently pulling endless lengths of chain from his bicycle basket, ih the FF version it is revealed that there is no bottom in the basket and there is a pile of chain on the pavement .


And don't forget that great scene from A Fish Called Wanda, where John Cleese is dancing around with his underwear on his head, and gets confronted by the Parents and the children,, and, where he is supposed to be nude, the 1:33.1 shows the very top of his underwear He is really wearing in the studio for that camera shot..
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantTouti
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Mithi:
Quote:
Quoting Touti:
Quote:
My question is, shouldn't it be Pan & Scan instead of full frame ?

Depends on what is is. 
The 1,33:1 can be both, a pan and scan of the 1,85:1 or an opened matte, thus full frame
Have a look at a frame with good background, e.g. a street scene, on both versions (make screenshots if you can play them on your computer).
If the 1,33:1 lacks information left and right, it's p&s, if it has the same width and more picture at the top and the bottom than on the 1,85:1 side, it is an opened matte.

cya, Mithi


Finally it seems that it is Full Frame.



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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
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Which image is which Touti.

Skip
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantKrikarian
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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really. it almost appears that both pictures are the same depth, yet the bottom picture has move room above the background building and shows more of the dumpster.

i think someone typed in the same depth numbers in the html for both shots...not nice to trick old people with bad eyes...

but yes, it looks as if the bottom is open mat.

and he should stop that.

krik
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 Last edited: by Krikarian
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantTouti
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Quoting Krikarian:
Quote:
really. it almost appears that both pictures are the same depth, yet the bottom picture has move room above the background building and shows more of the dumpster.

i think someone typed in the same depth numbers in the html for both shots...not nice to trick old people with bad eyes...

but yes, it looks as if the bottom is open mat.

and he should stop that.

krik


Top = Widescreen
Bottom = Standard

Why the same dimensions ?  I'm not sure.  When I do a "Capture Frame" with powerDVD it always return an image of 720x480.  I tried a simple print-screen instead but I ended up with a black images when pasting in Photoshop.
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Yep, its matted to FF

Skip
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Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Quoting Touti:
Quote:
Why the same dimensions ?  I'm not sure.  When I do a "Capture Frame" with powerDVD it always return an image of 720x480.  I tried a simple print-screen instead but I ended up with a black images when pasting in Photoshop.


There are settings in PowerDVD where you can customise the aspect ratio for screen grabs etc. I remember it could have strange results.
I don't know where they are, as I don't use the program anymore, but playing around in your settings might help!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantTouti
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
Quoting Touti:
Quote:
Why the same dimensions ?  I'm not sure.  When I do a "Capture Frame" with powerDVD it always return an image of 720x480.  I tried a simple print-screen instead but I ended up with a black images when pasting in Photoshop.


There are settings in PowerDVD where you can customise the aspect ratio for screen grabs etc. I remember it could have strange results.
I don't know where they are, as I don't use the program anymore, but playing around in your settings might help!


Gonna check that out tonight, thanks !
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