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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
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Registered: March 18, 2007
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Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
Going to see Pacific Rim today!

Ok, prove me wrong and and edit your text inside this my post. If you manage to do that, please tell me how. Last thing I want is a possibility to edit any text inside my post. No matter if it is my own or quoted. My biggest issue here is that in my opinion you're trying to fix something that isn't broken. I've been around on several forums for a long time and I know that it's technically possible to mis-quote someones text, but a problem? I don't see that. We can always check original post if it's quoted correctly. We have edit time stamps etc. That's enough for me.

This is what I'm trying to prevent. So, I guess we are talking two different things, and will probably never agree. I understand the problem with linking to quotes, but that is only a factor if the post can be edited. My proposal says you can't edit any post, if there is at least one other post following it. I think that solves the problem you are talking about.

I think both points of view are adequately expressed in this thread. So Invelos has plenty of opinions to review, if they even have the time. As for distracting them, I wouldn't worry about that. As with most businesses, there is an allocation of resources available for such things. It is a matter of deciding which ones, if any, make the cut. They will not likely allocate more time and resources and take away from core development just because the list of requested frills gets longer. They will select from the top of the list to fit available resources. But that's only my opinion and experience in the software business.
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 Last edited: by mediadogg
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
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If I quote someone and reply to that post - I want that quote to remain exactly the way it was.

My response is to what I quoted and not an edited version of it.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Exactly Kathy...
And in his revision of his idea mediadogg took that into account.

To be honest I don't see this as a likely change. But as mediadogg currently has it... I don't have any complaints so will support it.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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Quoting Kathy:
Quote:
If I quote someone and reply to that post - I want that quote to remain exactly the way it was.

My response is to what I quoted and not an edited version of it.

Exactly!! 

I don't want to end up in situations where:

QUOTE: You're a very nice guy!
RESPONSE: Thank you, indeed I am.

After quote edit....

QUOTE: You're a moron!
RESPONSE: Thank you, indeed I am.

DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
I understand the problem with linking to quotes, but that is only a factor if the post can be edited. My proposal says you can't edit any post, if there is at least one other post following it. I think that solves the problem you are talking about.


That would create more problems than solve. I would hate to loose the possibility for editing. For example, my english is what it is, not too good. Too often after posting I note several mistakes (spelling, grammar, missing/wrong words etc.) and since I like to be understood correctly, I try to edit my posts as readable as possible. I have to vote 'no thank you' for this change. It's not an improvement for current status.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
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Registered: March 18, 2007
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I don't think there is much more I can add, so I will pretty much rest my case.

@Kulju, I don't ask that you agree with my proposal, but I would ask that you do me the courtesy of even reading my response to your question. Why do you continue to rant about a situation that my proposal does not allow? I agree with you. I don't want that situation either. How much clearer can I say it?
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
Aim high. Ride the wind.
Registered: March 18, 2007
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Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
I understand the problem with linking to quotes, but that is only a factor if the post can be edited. My proposal says you can't edit any post, if there is at least one other post following it. I think that solves the problem you are talking about.


That would create more problems than solve. I would hate to loose the possibility for editing. For example, my english is what it is, not too good. Too often after posting I note several mistakes (spelling, grammar, missing/wrong words etc.) and since I like to be understood correctly, I try to edit my posts as readable as possible. I have to vote 'no thank you' for this change. It's not an improvement for current status.

Ok, now I see you understand what I am saying.

You know I have the same problem. My English is OK, but I don't type well and my eyes are bad. So I do edit a lot.

I am trying to train myself to use the preview in order to catch the spelling and grammar mistakes.

The other problem I have is based on my plugins work:
I spend a lot of time writing up info in the plugins forum on how to use the plugin. When that info changes, I have to write new info. People were complaining that they had to read through so much in order to figure out what was current. So I requested from Invelos the ability to change the technical information posts, and I request people not to quote it (because changes did not propagate).

So even I have a situation where my own proposal helps me in one case (plugins), but hurts me in another (spelling edits).

But I was blown away when somebody showed they could spoof a post, so that's when my whole attitude changed, and I tried to alter the proposal to cover all the bases.

If I had to pick the most important bits out of the proposal, I would pick the Rules changes that prohibit modifying of somebody else's post inside a quote (excerpts allowed).
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 Last edited: by mediadogg
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:
Ok, now I see you understand what I am saying.

Yes, I understand your idea. I just don't support it.
Quote:
You know I have the same problem. My English is OK, but I don't type well and my eyes are bad. So I do edit a lot.

I am trying to train myself to use the preview in order to catch the spelling and grammar mistakes.

But you still have 15 edited posts in this thread only. Now think the situation where you're not typing with your first language.
Quote:
I spend a lot of time writing up info in the plugins forum on how to use the plugin. When that info changes, I have to write new info. People were complaining that they had to read through so much in order to figure out what was current. So I requested from Invelos the ability to change the technical information posts

This is a problem, I agree, but I also think that this suggestion is totally wrong method to resolve it. In my opinion the latest info about plugins should always be found from the original post. Ken could fix this. We have similar cases where you can edit old posts like "List of Accepted Birth Years with Documentation" thread. I see no need to mess up the whole forum quote system to fix such a minor problem. What did Ken reply to your requests?
Quote:
and I request people not to quote it (because changes did not propagate).

It's hard, or at least very clumsy way to make your point to exact detail without quoting. But, like I said, I agree that original posts in Plugins forums should be editable without time limit.
Quote:
So even I have a situation where my own proposal helps me in one case (plugins), but hurts me in another (spelling edits).

That's why we have think which is more important. My vote goes for editing.
Quote:
But I was blown away when somebody showed they could spoof a post, so that's when my whole attitude changed

This is possible, yes. But you still have your original post left to back you up what you have actually said. Can you post a link for this case that blow you away?
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
Aim high. Ride the wind.
Registered: March 18, 2007
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Another idea:

Invelos could decide to implement the rules changes and leave everything else the same, except:

Modify blockquote to automatically include the link to the quoted block. That would make it extremely easy to track back to the original. Example:

Quoting mediadogg:
Quote:

Alternate Proposal, based on discussion:

  • - Add to the Forum Rules, an explicit prohibition of Impersonation of Another User

  • - Add to the Forum Rules an explicit prohibition of Misrepresentation of Another User by altering the contents of a quoted post (excerpts allowed)

  • - Reduce the period of time that a post can be edited - up to, but not after a subsequent post is made in the same thread. Exceptions by request to Invelos (e.g. pinned informational threads).

  • - Replace the existing blockquote mechanism with a linkquote mechanism. The quoted post post does not appear as clear text and cannot be edited by the quoter, but is instead rendered by the Forum Software, so that it displays much the way it displays today. What you see when editing, would be something like [linkquote start=123 length=155]post link[/linkquote]. When rendered however, the linkquote would look pretty much like today's blockquote.



  • For icing on the cake, we get a new type of post called "Info Post". Info posts, subject to editing and change, can be linked, but not quoted. Not sure what the rules would be for when Info Posts are allowed, maybe only in certain forums, such as contributions or plugins.
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     Last edited: by mediadogg
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
    Registered: March 14, 2007
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    Quoting mediadogg:
    Quote:

    Invelos could decide to implement the rules changes and leave everything else the same, except:

    Modify blockquote to automatically include the link to the quoted block. That would make it extremely easy to track back to the original.

    I have nothing against this, but I just don't see any need for this, since I cannot remember any misconduct what comes to quoting on DVDP, or on any other forums for that matter. That link could help on forums like Plugins though (assuming that you are able to edit original post).
     Last edited: by Kulju
    DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
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    Registered: March 18, 2007
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    That was a good reply. I think we have covered all points of view by now. To answer your questions about Ken's response, I didn't ask him directly. I didn't think it warranted his immediate attention, so I created a trouble ticket instead. They replied that it would be considered. That's good enough for me. Here is the link where my post was spoofed. Originally, it shocked me becuase I thought it was serious. Later on, Mark set up a perfect place for me to do the same, and I did it, just for the fun of it, just as I did when you asked me to show what I was talking about.
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     Last edited: by mediadogg
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
    Registered: March 14, 2007
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    Quoting mediadogg:
    Quote:
    To answer your questions about Ken's response, I didn't ask him directly. I didn't think it warranted his immediate attention, so I created a trouble ticket instead.

    I personally (try) to keep "Collected feature requests" thread original post up-to-date, but I cannot remember how I got unlimited editing rights. Propably I just sent a support ticket. Or maybe original post of pinned threads have this right by default?
    Quote:
    Here is the link where my post was spoofed. Originally, it shocked me becuase I thought it was serious. Later on, Mark set up a perfect place for me to do the same, and I did it, just for the fun of it, just as I did when you asked me to show what I was talking about.

    I also noted that one, but thought that it was just Mark kidding and in the spirit of this thread demonstrated that spoofing is possible. I cannot remember any "real life" examples though.
     Last edited: by Kulju
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStaNDarD
    Registered: March 31, 2007
    Germany Posts: 662
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    Quoting mediadogg:
    Quote:
    The other problem I have is based on my plugins work:
    I spend a lot of time writing up info in the plugins forum on how to use the plugin. When that info changes, I have to write new info. People were complaining that they had to read through so much in order to figure out what was current. So I requested from Invelos the ability to change the technical information posts, and I request people not to quote it (because changes did not propagate).

    If this is the reason why you ask for a new quoting system, wouldn't it be easier to ask Ken to disallow quoting for some posts?
     Last edited: by StaNDarD
    DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMark Harrison
    I like IMDB
    Registered: March 13, 2007
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    Quoting scotthm:
    Quote:
    Quoting DJ Doena:
    Quote:
    I can't even remember a case where another user was deliberately msiquoted.

    It's happened in this very thread.


    Just to be clear, I was just proving a point.  Outside this thread, under normal conditions, I would never do that.  I don't care for people putting words in my mouth.  And I try not to do it to others.

    Quoting NotADVDProfilerUser:
    Quote:
    Mark would never do that.  He's a real swell guy.


    See, I even found proof I'd never do that.

    Quoting mediadogg:
    Quote:
    Quoting Mark Harrison:
    Quote:
    Anyway, I guess if I had to vote, I would wholeheartedly endorse it. Best proposal ever!

    Thanks for setting me up ... 


       

    Just for that, you have my support.
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    DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantmediadogg
    Aim high. Ride the wind.
    Registered: March 18, 2007
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    Quoting StaNDarD:
    Quote:
    Quoting mediadogg:
    Quote:
    If this is the reason why you ask for a new quoting system, wouldn't it be easier to ask Ken to disallow quoting for some posts?

    Well, as I have tried to say several times now, there was no "THE" reason. I saw it as multiple issues. Gee, don't be so upset that I made a proposal. That's all it is. There are some good valid pros and cons, all documented in this thread. Don't you trust Invelos to make a good decision? 
    Thanks for your support.
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     Last edited: by mediadogg
    DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
    Alien with an attitude
    Registered: March 13, 2007
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    Quoting Kulju:
    Quote:
    I personally (try) to keep "Collected feature requests" thread original post up-to-date, but I cannot remember how I got unlimited editing rights. Propably I just sent a support ticket. Or maybe original post of pinned threads have this right by default?

    All editing is locked after, I think, 3 days.  For pinned posts, you have to ask for it to be turned back on so, I am guessing, you had to send a support ticket.
    Quote:
    I also noted that one, but thought that it was just Mark kidding and in the spirit of this thread demonstrated that spoofing is possible. I cannot remember any "real life" examples though.

    I can as it has happened to my posts. 
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     Last edited: by TheMadMartian
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