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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
Intertitles in silent films
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributoriPatsa
Zzzzzzz
Registered: March 13, 2007
Sweden Posts: 2,921
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Draxen said it. Intertitles are not "like" subtitles. If you want to track the language of the intertitles you would have to do it elsewhere (or locally).
Patrik
 Last edited: by iPatsa
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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United States Posts: 16,514
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Agree... should not be included in subtitles.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
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Quoting Draxen:
Quote:
Well, often in silent movies we have principal characters in a scene seen speaking, but intertitles are not used to explain what is said. Subtitles, as most understand them, would definitely have been used for such scene in a sound movie.

Subtitles is the textual representation of any audible dialogue (and sometimes other sounds such as "Doorbell rings" or "Soft piano music playing" etc.) heard in a movie. They describe what is said/heard, no more.

Intertitles on the other hand, in silent movies, are not designed to be a representation of what is said/heard (naturally...). They are sometimes used to describe what characters are saying on screen that is similar to subtitles, but very often used for other type of information explaining cuts ("Later..." / "Meanwhile on the street..."), or e.g. introducing characters seen first time on screen ("John, her father") and so on. Subtitles are never used in this way.

To me subtitles and intertitles are too different in their purpose and information they contain, for them to be handled as one and the same thing in DVDP.


Subtitles are also used to give information like how much time has past or the location at scene changes. They are functionally very similar. In the silent era, they just didn't have the technology to superimpose text very well, so put it on separate cards.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Mad Scientist at work!
Registered: May 26, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,653
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However, as intertitles can be subtitled, there would be no way to show which language the subtitles were in separately from the intertitles.  For example, if I wanted a German silent film with the original intertitles but English subtitles, if both boxes are marked how am I to know that the English is actually subtitles and not new inserted intertitles?

If we wanted to mark what language the intertitles were in, I'd say use the Other box in the Features section.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorninso4
Registered: January 16, 2010
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I can understand Ace_of_Sevens's wish to enter the language of the intertitles somewhere into the database but I agree with most users that the subtitle field is not very fitted for this kind of data.
I really don't see the win of information by doing so.

Example: A German silent film with original German intertitles and English subtitles.
Current handling: English is entered into the subtitles field
I don't know the language of the intertitles.
New handling: English and German entered into the subtitle field
I still don't whether the film has German or English intertitles.

Another which could not be cleared by this proposal:
Nosferatu from 1921 has German subtitles for the German intertitles because some of them are written in old Sütterlin writing.
Current handling: German is entered into the subtitles field
I know there are German subtiles
New handling: German is entered into the subtitle field
I don't know whether there are German subtitles for the intertitles
There's no possibility to enter German twice, so I actually lose data here.
Think different

Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
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Quoting ninso4:
Quote:
I can understand Ace_of_Sevens's wish to enter the language of the intertitles somewhere into the database but I agree with most users that the subtitle field is not very fitted for this kind of data.
I really don't see the win of information by doing so.

Example: A German silent film with original German intertitles and English subtitles.
Current handling: English is entered into the subtitles field
I don't know the language of the intertitles.
New handling: English and German entered into the subtitle field
I still don't whether the film has German or English intertitles.

Another which could not be cleared by this proposal:
Nosferatu from 1921 has German subtitles for the German intertitles because some of them are written in old Sütterlin writing.
Current handling: German is entered into the subtitles field
I know there are German subtiles
New handling: German is entered into the subtitle field
I don't know whether there are German subtitles for the intertitles
There's no possibility to enter German twice, so I actually lose data here.


The added data is whether someone who is only fluent in German or otherwise wants to watch in German can watch the movie. That's the point of tracking languages, right?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorninso4
Registered: January 16, 2010
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I completely understand your intention here and I agree that this kind of information would be useful in some cases.
But, as I wrote, the subtitle solution has some problems.
Staying with my last example:
I'm (not surprisingly) fluent in German but the information that the Nosferatu release has a German subtitle track is very important for me. As written, some intertitles are in Sütterlin:

Reading this is very demanding even if you are a native German speaker because this kind of writing isn't in use anymore (for decades).
So a release without German subtitles for those German intertitles isn't very useful for many people.
If we put both into one field I wouldn't know whether the release contains intertitles without any subtitle track or a subtitle track for the German intertitles.
Therefore a distinction between subtitles and intertitles is needed, I think.

The proposal to put the intertitle language into the Other features box is far from perfect but it would work.
Think different

Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
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