Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
3rd Party Database
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 3,475
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Are we allowed to use a single 3rd party source for data?

Edit: To clarify - I am ONLY talking about Cast and Roles. Thanks.
 Last edited: by Kathy
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Profiling since 2004
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 5,703
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
... for sure: just think of release dates, SRP, rating details, ...

As long as the source is authoritative - or at least relyable...
Complete list of Common Names  •  A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 1,598
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Which 3rd party database are we referring too?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 4,508
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
This is in reference to one of my contributions where an old film only had opening credits. I took the cast exactly from the opening credits, and added role names from Wikipedia.

Kathy voted no, saying that I needed to source the role names from more than one single source. I can't find anything in the rules that support that statement.
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,845
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Yes.  You are not allowed to "mass copy from a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license".  However, there is no prohibition from acquiring some information from a third party database.  For instance, on many older films (I'm talking about 1930's vintage) it's not uncommon for the main cast to have roles credited and for supporting cast to have no roles credited.  If you were to use roles from a third party database for this portion of the cast I don't believe it would be a violation of the rules.

---------------
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 4,508
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Please note that the rule says "which violates their stated usage license". This rules out (for example) IMDb, but it doesn't rule out Wikipedia. Their usage license specifically states that you are free to share their data.

Also note that Kathy's objection was that I only used one single source. The rule states "you may use the film itself, or another source to identify the role." Note "another" - singular. No mention of multiple sources needed.
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
 Last edited: by GSyren
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 4,508
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I do wish that those who have voted No would explain what they base their votes on.

I put in a lot of time doing complete audits of profiles that I find lacking or suspicious, including going through credits, and often also rescanning the covers. Sure, I can make mistakes. I am not infallible. When someone points out a mistake, I fix it. But I expect them to be able to explain why it is a mistake. If it is a rule infraction, I expect them to show me the rule (or forum ruling by Ken or Gerry) that I have violated.

I get very disappointed when someone wants to discard my hard work just with "it's not allowed" without being able to back it up.
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 4,508
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Oddly enough, the screeners seem disagree with the majority here.
A couple of other similar contributions have been declined. 
It's everybody's loss as far as I'm concerned.
Of course the screeners don't provide any explanation. Or possibility to argue my case.
It certainly doesn't encourage me to contribute further. 
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Profiling since 2004
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 5,703
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
Oddly enough, the screeners seem disagree with the majority here...

On the first hand screeners only follow the votes. (Resonable) No-votes turn down a contribution.

To argue with screeners just edit your contribution notes after you received a no vote...
Complete list of Common Names  •  A good point for starting with Headshots (and v11.1)
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 4,508
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
Oddly enough, the screeners seem disagree with the majority here...

On the first hand screeners only follow the votes. (Resonable) No-votes turn down a contribution.

To argue with screeners just edit your contribution notes after you received a no vote...

There were no votes at all for these contributions.
I've seen screeners accept all kinds of crap, but now they're turning down good profiles that I've spent hours of work auditing. Well screw that! 
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 3,475
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
There have been discussions about this topic before. I've tried to find the relevant threads but didn't have any luck.

GSyren, I might very well be wrong and mine is only one vote. If you think you are right please leave the contribution as is.

I only brought this to the forums to get further input since I seldom disagree with any of your contributions.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 4,508
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Kathy,
I'm disappointed in Invelos, not in you. I respect that you have your opinion.

If they can't be bothered to explain why they decline my hard work, then they don't deserve it. Right now I don't feel like contributing any more of my profile work.
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNexus the Sixth
Contributor since 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,188
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
My only problem with these kind of contributions is that the profile should reflect the film credits. And if we add role names to cast that aren't credited with role names, the profile no longer reflects the credits. Keep in mind that this sort of information is optional, although certainly useful.
First registered: February 15, 2002
 Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,845
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
I've seen screeners accept all kinds of crap, but now they're turning down good profiles that I've spent hours of work auditing. Well screw that! 

The way I look at it, I audit my profiles for my own benefit, and I will occasionally contribute that work if the mood strikes me (which is infrequently.)  If the recipients of my work want it they are welcome to it.  If they don't, I just move on.  The online database is not my database, so I don't worry about it very much.

---------------
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCharlieM
Registered Sept 5 2005
Registered: May 20, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 2,934
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
From the rules

If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use the film itself, or another source to identify the role. However, mass copy from a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license is not allowed. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 4,508
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting CharlieM:
Quote:
From the rules

If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use the film itself, or another source to identify the role. However, mass copy from a third party commercial database which violates their stated usage license is not allowed. In each case, list Actor’s names and roles (when given) exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited.

What part of that rule hasn't already been addressed already in this thread? 
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
 Last edited: by GSyren
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next