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Cast Entries...
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStaticman
Registered: March 29, 2007
Posts: 3
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Cast Entries...

Three different for Chloe Grace Moretz, how many do we need?  
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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As many there are different credits for her.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStaticman
Registered: March 29, 2007
Posts: 3
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Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
As many there are different credits for her.



I don't understand what you mean?

So when I click on cast info in Kick Ass,nothing comes up for Kick Ass 2, and that's ok with you?

Along with all the other entries all over the place?
 Last edited: by Staticman
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLewis_Prothero
Strength Through Unity
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
Germany Posts: 6,730
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You can crosslink the naming variants according to the most often used variant.
Using this tool may help you to determine which one it is.

For implementing a "Common Name" (Most credited variant) into your local database "simply" use the "Credited As" datafield when attaching an actor to a profile. (See pic below)



This way your database will only ever have one variant, while the profiles will mirror exactly how she was credited.

When uploading such a crosslink to the main-database (profile-specific!) make sure to document how you found the common name (Best, but not required, by giving the results of the Credit LookUp Tool (CLT)).
It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?


Registrant since 05/22/2003
 Last edited: by Lewis_Prothero
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantGrendell
One disc at a time...
Registered: May 8, 2007
United States Posts: 824
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Quoting Staticman:
Quote:

So when I click on cast info in Kick Ass,nothing comes up for Kick Ass 2, and that's ok with you?


Yes, it is. Linking in DVD Profiler is hopelessly broken, and most users seem to either not care, or actually want it that way.

One user in fact has given a lot of input and even offered to help fix it, and he just gets flamed or ridiculed.

Very strange and bizarre, but, it is what it is.
99.9% of all cat plans consist only of "Step 1."
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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Quoting Grendell:
Quote:
Linking in DVD Profiler is hopelessly broken, and most users seem to either not care, or actually want it that way.

Or have given up. Nothing indicates that it'll be fixed some day.
Quote:
One user in fact has given a lot of input and even offered to help fix it

No user can fix it. Ken must do it. He just doesn't seem to be very interested about it.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorThe Movieman
DVDP User Since 2007
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 2,550
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Also check for common name threads to find out. In this case:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=469783&PageNum=3&messageID=2228666#M2228666

You can Google the name followed by a comma and then "invelos.com"
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStaticman
Registered: March 29, 2007
Posts: 3
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Thanks for all your input on this!

Thanks to The Movieman for that link! Should have searched.

I've sorted it myself by editing, picked the Movies with the least common profiles then gone into edit, clicked on cast and then find cast member, then just clicked on one with the most common entries and replaced it!
It'll do for me.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorThe Movieman
DVDP User Since 2007
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 2,550
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Quoting Staticman:
Quote:
Thanks for all your input on this!

Thanks to The Movieman for that link! Should have searched.

I've sorted it myself by editing, picked the Movies with the least common profiles then gone into edit, clicked on cast and then find cast member, then just clicked on one with the most common entries and replaced it!
It'll do for me.


No need to be embarrassed, not the easiest (or obvious) thing to find.
 Last edited: by The Movieman
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
France Posts: 4,479
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The linking problems in dvdprofiler are a consequence of rules which ask to enter names as they are credited.  So when an actor is credited differently in several movies, you have to use  a "common name" and the "Credited As" field to get a correct linking. On the contrary, when two different actors have the same name, you must break their link, using the birthyear field.

Main linking problems are:

1/People changing their names
In many cases, the actor himself decides to change his name in credits. You have :
- married women
- people using sometimes stage names, sometimes their real name
- american actors using sometimes their middle name, sometimes not, and sometimes only first letter of their middle name
- different use of suffixes, as Jr, or Jr.
all those credits reproduce the name used by the actor himself at the time of the credit, and in that sense, they are "correct", so we need a rule to choose the "common name" used for linking. Invelos asks us to use the CLT tool, which counts the number of profiles where each different name is used.
The main problem associated with those cases is to know that Anna Thomson is the same person as Anna Levine, and search both names in the CLT. If the contributor ignores that, he will not use the common name system.

2/Contributor unable to reproduce correctly credits
Two main cases:
- credits in non roman letters (cyrillic, Asian, Arabic...): people have to romanize the credits to enter them in dvdprofiler. But no indication has never been given for this romanization. So, in the CLT, you can find, for example, the Russian actress credited as Dinara Droukarova and Dinara Drukarova. Asian characters also lead to many variants.
- accented names : when credits are in capital letters, the accents can be inapparent in certain credits. Even if the actor has always used the same accented name, Invelos rule that requests to reproduce what you see on credits generates different non linking variants. Most of European movies profiles are affected by this problem.

3/Asian names
In some countries, people reverse the order given name/family name to family name/given name. Invelos never said without ambiguity if first name field meant given name, or first part of the credited name. So most of Asian people have two variants in CLT: ZHANG Ziyi, and Ziyi ZHANG.

4/ Actors with same name
When you do not know the birth year of different actors with same name, or if their birth year is the same, you cannot break the incorrect linking.


For a user who downloads cast and crew from online profiles, it is quite impossible to obtain a local database with correct linking. In fact thousands of actors have different variants, and it wil take hours and hours to correct a database containing several hundreds profiles. The only simple way to have a correct linking is to use cast and crew data from IMDb, using excellent DJ Doena's tool, Cast/Crew Edit2, that you can find here. This tool is for local personal use only.
Images from movies
 Last edited: by surfeur51
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
The main problem associated with those cases is to know that Anna Thomson is the same person as Anna Levine

Same problem will always be there no matter how the linking is implemented.

I agree with you in almost everything you say, but don't you think that you have told you opinion once or twice before? No offence, but you sound like a really broken record and it's starting get really annoying.
I don't think that there is anyone who is happy with a current linking system, but there's nothing we can do about it, except wait. Maybe Ken will fix it some day, maybe not. Have a nice christmas.
 Last edited: by Kulju
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsurfeur51
Since July 3, 2003
Registered: March 29, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
France Posts: 4,479
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Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
No offence, but you sound like a really broken record and it's starting get really annoying

You probably already know everything I wrote, since you are a user who often participated in linking discussions. But can you be sure that the user who opened this thread knows everything about linking problems? Seeing his questions, I'm personaly not sure, and think that what I wrote can help him to decide what to do (knowing that search in Invelos forums is not so perfect that everybody looking about a problem will find it easily)...

Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
No user can fix it

Everyone can fix the problem in his local database.
1/ spending hundreds of hours during years, waiting for no ending common names threads
2/ using IMDb data with immediate  linking

Nice Christmas for you and your family 
Images from movies
 Last edited: by surfeur51
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorLord Of The Sith
Registered: March 17, 2007
United States Posts: 853
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Quoting surfeur51:
Quote:
The linking problems in dvdprofiler are a consequence of rules which ask to enter names as they are credited.  So when an actor is credited differently in several movies, you have to use  a "common name" and the "Credited As" field to get a correct linking. On the contrary, when two different actors have the same name, you must break their link, using the birthyear field.

Main linking problems are:

1/People changing their names
In many cases, the actor himself decides to change his name in credits. You have :
- married women
- people using sometimes stage names, sometimes their real name
- american actors using sometimes their middle name, sometimes not, and sometimes only first letter of their middle name
- different use of suffixes, as Jr, or Jr.
all those credits reproduce the name used by the actor himself at the time of the credit, and in that sense, they are "correct", so we need a rule to choose the "common name" used for linking. Invelos asks us to use the CLT tool, which counts the number of profiles where each different name is used.
The main problem associated with those cases is to know that Anna Thomson is the same person as Anna Levine, and search both names in the CLT. If the contributor ignores that, he will not use the common name system.

2/Contributor unable to reproduce correctly credits
Two main cases:
- credits in non roman letters (cyrillic, Asian, Arabic...): people have to romanize the credits to enter them in dvdprofiler. But no indication has never been given for this romanization. So, in the CLT, you can find, for example, the Russian actress credited as Dinara Droukarova and Dinara Drukarova. Asian characters also lead to many variants.
- accented names : when credits are in capital letters, the accents can be inapparent in certain credits. Even if the actor has always used the same accented name, Invelos rule that requests to reproduce what you see on credits generates different non linking variants. Most of European movies profiles are affected by this problem.

3/Asian names
In some countries, people reverse the order given name/family name to family name/given name. Invelos never said without ambiguity if first name field meant given name, or first part of the credited name. So most of Asian people have two variants in CLT: ZHANG Ziyi, and Ziyi ZHANG.

4/ Actors with same name
When you do not know the birth year of different actors with same name, or if their birth year is the same, you cannot break the incorrect linking.


For a user who downloads cast and crew from online profiles, it is quite impossible to obtain a local database with correct linking. In fact thousands of actors have different variants, and it wil take hours and hours to correct a database containing several hundreds profiles. The only simple way to have a correct linking is to use cast and crew data from IMDb, using excellent DJ Doena's tool, Cast/Crew Edit2, that you can find here. This tool is for local personal use only.


Other than the part about IMDB, I agree with everything Surfer just said and thank him for pointing out all of the issues.  There is another issue in my opinion which is if you correct the names and don't lock the profile during the next change they get all mucked up again.  I would like to see a naming convention come to be that corrects the issues and allows us to keep them corrected.  I would also like to see ALL actors have a birth year or even a full birthdate when possible as some actors have the same birthdate.  This will help keep them separated.  Then again this has been brought up a thousand times since I became a member, which was years ago and we are no closer to fixing this now, than we were then.  Sorry but the status quo will not allow this to happen.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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Quoting Lord Of The Sith:
Quote:
There is another issue in my opinion which is if you correct the names and don't lock the profile during the next change they get all mucked up again.

IMHO this isn't an "issue" since that's how every field work and should work no matter how the linking has been implemented.
Quote:
I would also like to see ALL actors have a birth year or even a full birthdate when possible as some actors have the same birthdate.  This will help keep them separated.

This would be the worst case scenario since BYs are horrible idea to separate actors from each other.  There are much better ways to solve this problem.
 Last edited: by Kulju
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