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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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HD DVD and Blu-ray |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,911 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting twojayz: Quote:
Just out of curiosity, isn't 190,000 more than 160,000? The 190,000 was being disputed by everyone, I believe. | | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... |
| | Registered: September 7, 2007 | | Posts: 265 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pplchamp: Quote:
Quoting twojayz:
Quote:
Just out of curiosity, isn't 190,000 more than 160,000?
The 190,000 was being disputed by everyone, I believe. Yup, disputed but was it ever actually proven wrong? I don't recall seeing anything concrete to show that Optimus and the crew didn't pull those numbers. I'm not being argumentative about this, I don't ever remember seeing any news anywhere that actually disproved the number. If it is out there from a reliable source please share... |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,911 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting twojayz: Quote:
Quoting pplchamp:
Quote:
Quoting twojayz:
Quote:
Just out of curiosity, isn't 190,000 more than 160,000?
The 190,000 was being disputed by everyone, I believe.
Yup, disputed but was it ever actually proven wrong? I don't recall seeing anything concrete to show that Optimus and the crew didn't pull those numbers. I'm not being argumentative about this, I don't ever remember seeing any news anywhere that actually disproved the number. If it is out there from a reliable source please share... I don't recall seeing it proved either way. Just remember that it was being disputed, and that heads of other studios were not buying the claim. I'll see if I can find anything. | | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,911 |
| | Posted: | | | | This is what I found... Quote:
The Nielsen VideoScan numbers don't come out 'till tomorrow, but Video Business is reporting that the latest installment of the Pirates franchise has sold 160k copies in its first week. This puts it right behind 300 as the number one selling HD title -- Paramount claimed to have sold 190k copies of Transformers, but this was debunked by industry analysts. This will no doubt ensure a great week for the blu camp, but time will tell if it has the legs of Transformers or 300. While this is certainly good for blu, we can't wait till next week to see how the latest Harry Potter title does since it's available for both formats.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/12/13/third-installment-of-pirates-moves-160k-blu-ray-discs/ Quote:
Nielsen VideoScan High-Def market share for week ending October 21st, 2007
As expected, Transformers is at the top this week on the Nielsen VideoScan charts courtesy of Home Media Magazine. What some didn't expect is for Blu-ray to continue to outsell HD DVD overall, despite the fact Blu-ray didn't have any notable titles that week. But wait you ask, didn't Transformers sell more copies than any other movie? Well, that's where it gets interesting, while Paramount claims they sold 190k copies, Nielsen only counted 115k. Some might say that's because they don't count Wal-Mart, and while that could be the case, the Wal-Mart near our house still doesn't carry either format. Judging by the titles in the list and how the list compares to last week's, we'd say that Blu-ray's buy one get one free deal went pretty well and we really can't wait to see what the HD DVD camp is willing to do to offset Spiderman 3 in a few weeks -- but we'd bet no matter what they do, it'll be good for the consumer.
Transformers 100
Pirates of the Carribean: Dead Man's Chest 9.47
Pirates of the Carribean: Curse of the Black Pearl 9.12
Fatastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer 5.47
Apocalypto 5.02
Deja Vu 3.71
The Prestige 3.60
Wild Hogs 3.53
The Reaping BR 3.42
300 BR 3.37
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/26/nielsen-videoscan-high-def-market-share-for-week-ending-october/ | | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | Thanks for the links Erik. But those still are nothing more that speculation. Or rather news stories about other people's speculation. I'm with Twojayz. I heard the rumors, but haven't ever seen anything authoritative to put this rumor to bed once and for all. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
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| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,911 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well, if we are going to go by Neilson Video Scan numbers for the 160k, why wouldn't the 115k be an official number for Transformers? I'm sure that everyone could come out with a number that counts what Walmart might have sold.
If Neison reports 115k for Transformers and Paramount comes out with a 190k number, +75k....
Couldn't Disney come out and logiically claim that POTC sold 160k per Neilson numbers plus the same 75k sold at Walmart for a total of 235k? Would anyone believe it? I know I wouldn't. But, would there be proof? Sorta, most would point to the Neilson Video Scan numbers as showing that Disney was not being honest. Same thing people did with Paramount.
I don't know what Paramount sold, I don't know what Disney sold. But, according to the only source that counts titles on an equal basis, the numbers are 160k and 115k. Until there is a difinitive resource to count ALL units sold, that is the best we can go buy. Isn't it? | | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... |
| | Registered: September 7, 2007 | | Posts: 265 |
| | Posted: | | | | Erik, I swear I'm not trying to be argumentative on this! However, since the Neilson numbers can't account for everything sold I will side (with caution) with the numbers that the studios release. I wouldn't have doubted for a second if POTC had broke 200,000 units last week. I think it's a popular enough series of flms that the numbers should have been that high. In all honesty I truly expected something from Blu-ray to top that 190,000 number, be it Spiderman or POTC. If anything I'm actually shocked that neither of them did. I don't know if that is good, bad or indifferent news for Blu-ray but here you (arguably) have two of the biggest film franchises ever and neither of them can (with absolutle certainty) claim to have beaten Transformers. Odd to me I guess. Good numbers on each of the 3rd film releases but at some point somebody is going to have to knock one out of the park and hit that 200k mark.
I'd love to say it would be Bourne although I don't have total faith in that. A hell of a good film that did really well at the box office, was given great reviews and had really good fan reaction. It has enough going for it that it is within the realm of possibility that this is the film that could do it but I wouldn't bet on it. When compared to SM3, POTC, Shrek or even Transformers it would have to be regarded as the best of the bunch. I'm sure it had a great first week and if I had to guess I'd say somewhere in the range of 110-140k units sold. Anything less and I will be shocked. If totals get much higher than that I'll be pleasantly surprised...
Food for thought, that's all. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting twojayz: Quote:
Good numbers on each of the 3rd film releases but at some point somebody is going to have to knock one out of the park and hit that 200k mark. Maybe Harry Potter will do it. Should be interesting results at the very least. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
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| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,911 |
| | Posted: | | | | I know where you're coming from. 1) If Sony had come out and stated that Spider-man 3 sold 195k, and NVS numbers only showed 112k, people would be up in arms about Sony releasing false numbers. Agree or disagree? 2) If Disney claimed that Pirates did 200k in sales, and the NVS numbers only show 160k, poeple would blast Disney for releasing false numbers. Agree or disagree? Note: Both would be the same as Paramount, and Paramount was blasted by studio execs as well as other industry analysts. We know that according to NVS, the following statements are true from their statistics.... Tramsformers sold 115k Pirates sold 160k According to Paramount, we know that they believe the following to be true... Trasformers sold 115k trackable and another 75k untrackable for a total of 190k Why is it so hard to imagine that Pirates could have sold another 30k-40k in untrackable sales? Because Disney won't do what they blasted Paramount for dioing, and releasing what they think are the real numbers? How can Transformers be ranked at number 1 and Pirates at number 2, when trackable sales have Pirates at number 1 and Transformers at #2 or there about. I am just trying to understand the logic. Hypothetical: Transformers sold 115k (NVS) and 75k (Not traced) or 65% more. That would be the same as if Pirates 160k (NVS) and 104k (not traced) -- 65% more for a total of 264 thousand copies. So, do we accept the NVS numbers as being official, or do we add 65% to every NVS number is released to match Paramount? I'll return you to your regularly scheduled programming now  Edit: To clarify, the Sony SM3 numbers i pulled out of my a$$. | | | | Signature banned: Reason out of date... | | | | Last edited: by NewEnglander |
| | Registered: September 7, 2007 | | Posts: 265 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree on both counts that "people" would have nailed Disney and Sony to the wall, just like they did Paramount, I wouldn't. Like I said, I actually expected those types of numbers from those two releases. I find it totally believable that Pirates sold a bunch of units that weren't tracked. The only number I'm going by is the 160,000 though as it is the only one out there. Now, if some time next week Disney comes back and says they in fact sold 225,00 copies of At World's End, I wouldn't have any problem believing that. It's just a matter of clarification. They know much better than Neilson what they actual numbers are.
I know I'm in the minority on that but it's not so outrageous to me. Just like I never thought that 190,000 copies of Transformers was outrageous. Higher than I expected no doubt but not so much to the point that I couldn't believe it. It was also the biggest standard DVD release of the year so thinking it wouldn't perform equally on HD DVD is a little naive to me.
Maybe at some point I'll grab the total DVD sales and compare them to the HD versions of SM3, POTC and TF. I'd be willing to bet that the ratio between HD and SD is pretty close across the board. I'll get back to you all on that one. |
| | Registered: September 7, 2007 | | Posts: 265 |
| | Posted: | | | | By the way Mark, yeah Harry might do it. I never really got into the Potter series so I forgot all about it. My bad. It should have been a pretty good week on both sides. |
| | Registered: September 7, 2007 | | Posts: 265 |
| | Posted: | | | | By the way Champ, the logic (for me anyway) is this: If Paramount says 190,000 copies total for TF I will take that number as accurate. Since Disney didn't dispute (yet) the 160,000 copies of At World's End, I will take that as accurate. As mentioned, if they come out with a modification to that number I'll take that as accurate. They have to offer up something different though. I can't imagine they wouldn't love the talking point of having the best selling HD disc of the year.
By the way, did you notice I'm really not arguing anything that you're saying? It all makes sense to me and your numbers for Spiderman and AWE are much closer to what I expected than the released sales figures. What I don't understand is this; if on either of those releases there were a substantial more sold, why hasn't that information been released? Again, I can't imagine Sony and/or Disney not wanting that to brag about. |
| | Registered: September 7, 2007 | | Posts: 265 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ok, so I looked up the sales for Pirates, Spider-Man and Transformers and this is how it broke down in terms of percentages of HD discs against the SD disc sales.
HD Sales SD Sales HD Percentage
POTC 160,000 8,000,000 2%
Spider-Man 3 130,000 5,000,000 2.60%
Transformers 190,000 8,300,000 2.23%
According to these numbers everything appears to fall in line with each other. This is based on published sales numbers for each of the three releases. Spider-Man actually has the highest percentage relative to the SD release which surprised me. I don't know what you all want to make of this information but I'm not sure I see any potential discrepancies in the numbers. Transformers is the best selling DVD of the three so to me it would reason that the sales for the HD version would be proportional, which they are. They aren't grossly inflated and fall almost right in the middle of the
2-2.5% range for the HD release. Take it for what you will. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting twojayz: Quote:
I agree on both counts that "people" would have nailed Disney and Sony to the wall, just like they did Paramount, I wouldn't. Like I said, I actually expected those types of numbers from those two releases. I find it totally believable that Pirates sold a bunch of units that weren't tracked. The only number I'm going by is the 160,000 though as it is the only one out there. Now, if some time next week Disney comes back and says they in fact sold 225,00 copies of At World's End, I wouldn't have any problem believing that. It's just a matter of clarification. They know much better than Neilson what they actual numbers are.
I know I'm in the minority on that but it's not so outrageous to me. You may be in the minority, but I agree with everything you've said. I can't explain why Paramount announced many more sales than Neilsen reported, but until I see something official, I'll go with them. Why they had sales that "disappeared" from the reporting and no one else seems to have, I honestly don't have an answer for.  I also agree that people would have been all over Sony or Disney had a similar situation happened with their releases. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
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| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,192 |
| | Posted: | | | | Thousands of copies of Transformers probably "disappeared" to Europe.  | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Patsa: Quote:
Thousands of copies of Transformers probably "disappeared" to Europe. That very well could be. But if Paramount is going to report worldwide sales, I'd think everyone else would as well. Why let Paramount have all the fun. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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