Maybe I did not make myself clear enough:

For me, typing credits as you see them into a database is completely useless. Only when able to connect then the data become valuable.

Let's see if i can explain this clearly.

One of the many problems I see with our current linking system lies in the very freedom we have in using our locals. We can all basically create our own linking based on the central data, or you could even choose locally to link Marion Morrison to John Wayne if such was your wish. The problem here being that this puts you outside the "box" as it were and non-Contributable because the system is based on theoretically the Most COMMONLY CREDITED name. With a simplel association system, this would still be based on the ACTUAL credits but there would be NO single priority name, once the associations were created and shared in some form, then you would be free to select whether you wanted to use NameA, Name B, Name C, etc. Whatever name you chose to make your search ion would generate exactly the same list of films.

You would still have the ability to link Marion Morrison to John Wayne but that would remain outside the box and non-contributable.

I hope that makes sense, i certainly know what I am trying to explain. Probably clear as mud.

Skip

Quoting Dr Pavlov:

Quote:
Let's see if i can explain this clearly.

One of the many problems I see with our current linking system lies in the very freedom we have in using our locals. We can all basically create our own linking based on the central data, or you could even choose locally to link Marion Morrison to John Wayne if such was your wish. The problem here being that this puts you outside the "box" as it were and non-Contributable because the system is based on theoretically the Most COMMONLY CREDITED name. With a simplel association system, this would still be based on the ACTUAL credits but there would be NO single priority name, once the associations were created and shared in some form, then you would be free to select whether you wanted to use NameA, Name B, Name C, etc. Whatever name you chose to make your search ion would generate exactly the same list of films.

You would still have the ability to link Marion Morrison to John Wayne but that would remain outside the box and non-contributable.

I hope that makes sense, i certainly know what I am trying to explain. Probably clear as mud.

Skip

I know exactly where Skip is coming from here.

I personally use the CLT when I want to contribute something. But the majority of my linking information cannot be contributed because it doesn't match the CLT.
Here's an example:
Jim Caviezel - or James Caviezel.

According to the CLT results:
Jim = 52 (189)
James = 92 (481)

Personally I have him in 11 films....9 of which he is credited as Jim. The other 2 as James. I personally do not want to use James as the common name (and I don't) I want to use Jim because that is the most common name I have (personally I think if the CLT results were checked then Jim would be more popular anyway!).

If the online db was 'As Credited' then it would give the CLT results more meaning IMO.

If I had my way (which I obviously don't  ) I would make the Credited As function optional to accept or contribute (as Ken has said may be a possibility).

I would also make the ability to overwrite crew names (eg. Visual Effects to Visual Effects Supervisor) contributable.

As it stands there are profiles I can never accept further updates because they with either ruin my linking preferences or overwrite data copied from the film credits.

Silly stuff IMO.

That was off-topic and I apologise.

Taro - I agree with others here. Sorry to see you go. Do what I do: contribute and keep your forum interaction to a minimum.

Quoting Ken Cole:

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Quoting Pantheon:

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If the online db was 'As Credited' then it would give the CLT results more meaning IMO.

It is, if the profiles submitted have the credits entered correctly.

Precisely the problem! 

Quoting hal9g:

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Quoting Ken Cole:

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Quoting Pantheon:

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If the online db was 'As Credited' then it would give the CLT results more meaning IMO.

It is, if the profiles submitted have the credits entered correctly.

Precisely the problem! 

This why I do not support two premises. 1) Good enough is good enough and 2) The assumption that the credits are the same across  all copies of a given release in the entire world and/or different version, this is a premise that is known to be absolutely false, how much it is false is not relevant. If we screw up one title by allowing this practice, that is one title too many and calls into question the accuracy of the entire database. And creates a situation that will take months, if not years to unscramble.

I think the only thing that can be safely assumed to be true is as follows . It was recently noted that the Disc ID for Region A US and Region A Japan are the same on The Matrix titles. It would seem unlikely that different credit list would exist under this circumstance, unless the Hidden Japanese Audio Track also includes a Japanese set of credits, which is possible, I didn't look for that potentiality.

Skip

Skip

Quoting hal9g:

Quote:

Wouldn't changing the audio track only change the audio, and not the on-screen (video) credits?

Well, in his contribution notes about those discs, Skip explained that he went to the house of a friend to "check" them, since he doesn't own himself, in order to correct "bad" profiles made by people who owns those discs.

In fact, it seems that, despite his careful check, changing the audio track only changes audio, and not at all on-screen credits...
... of course, Skip is not a liar, and he surely went to his friend's house to check those discs, but for a man that always says that "good enough" is not good enough and contribution notes must reach perfection, it's just a small bug...

Quoting hal9g:

Quote:
Quoting Ken Cole:

Quote:
Quoting Pantheon:

Quote:
If the online db was 'As Credited' then it would give the CLT results more meaning IMO.

It is, if the profiles submitted have the credits entered correctly.

Precisely the problem! 

This and the somewhat strange title count. In many cases the same film gets counted as two or more titles, simply because the CLT seems not to be based on original titles but on the local titles. I suspect that in some cases even (possibly incorrectly entered) editions get counted as "titles".

Quoting hal9g:

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The thing is, how many times a person is credited a certain way in how many titles/profiles is completely unnecessary data in order for a linking system to work.

Relying on users to submit accurate data for a linking system to work is doomed to failure.  This system was implemented long after the on-line data base was thoroughly corrupted with IMDb data.  The concept that this data will be corrected any time soon, if ever, is overly optimistic.

A simple linking system wouldn't care if the actual credits in the main database are "As Credited" or not.  It would only need to know that credit A equals credit B equals credit C.  This system would also link all instances within your local database automatically without making you manually go to each profile and update the credit to include "As Credited" data.

Ken could actually pre-populate the new table that would be required by extracting currently existing "As Credited" data from the main database, so much of the linking would be in place from the first day of implementation.

But, I seem to be whistling in the wind. 

I actually agree with and support your proposed solution. To be honest, at first I thought that the best way to go would be to let users correct incorrect credits (spelling errors, parsing errors, romanization errors, etc). However, having read your explanation as well as the explanations of other users that have similar ideas to yours, I have to admit that your solution is the better one: less hassle and it preserves all the necessary info, including how a person was credited.

The only two tiny remarks I have regarding such a system:
- it would be import to verify carefully before linking credit A to credit B, so as to not link two different actors by mistake, creating "false friends" in the database. I don't know how this should be done, though
- the icing on the cake (for me at least), would be the possibility for users to locally determine which alternative is displayed in all credits. But that's really only a 'nice to have' kind of feature. The main issue for me is that credits would be linked correctly.