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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Parsing Help |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: April 3, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,998 |
| | Posted: | | | |  How should these two names be parsed Annet//Wenhammar D. Annet/Wenhammar/D. Francisco//Gutierrez P. Francisco/Gutierrez/P. Or something else? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Based on the Rules there is only one answer
Annet/Wenhammar/D.
Francisco/Gutierrez/P.
There is no data On screen to support anything other conclusion, Nick. Any other conclusion is going to require documentation to support it.
Following American-style the suspicion would be
Annet, Wehammar D., which would make the name for research purposes Wenhammar D. Annet, but that conclusion is not consistent with the rest of the data I see.
Very strange, i have never seen it, but the data is what it is.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
|   | Berak | | Bibamus morieundum est! |
| Registered: May 10, 2007 |  Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Based on the Rules there is only one answer
Annet/Wenhammar/D.
Francisco/Gutierrez/P.
There is no data On screen to support anything other conclusion, Nick. Any other conclusion is going to require documentation to support it.
Following American-style the suspicion would be
Annet, Wehammar D., which would make the name for research purposes Wenhammar D. Annet, but that conclusion is not consistent with the rest of the data I see.
Very strange, i have never seen it, but the data is what it is.
Skip Agreed | | | Berak
It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 810 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ninehours: Quote:
How should these two names be parsed
Annet//Wenhammar D.
Annet/Wenhammar/D.
Francisco//Gutierrez P.
Francisco/Gutierrez/P.
Or something else? This is from a Mexican / Spanish production and both actors look to have Spanish style double last names. In both cases the mothers last name has been cut to a single letter. The correct parsing would be "Annet//Wenhammar D." and "Francisco//Gutierrez P.". pdf | | | Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | You are making an assumption based on culture NOT on data, Paul. Back it up, go out and do the research to support your position for tyhoise two people.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pdf256: Quote:
This is from a Mexican / Spanish production and both actors look to have Spanish style double last names. In both cases the mothers last name has been cut to a single letter. The correct parsing would be "Annet//Wenhammar D." and "Francisco//Gutierrez P.".
pdf I am a little confused as to how you came to this conclusion. If these are 'spanish style' double last names, the mother's last name would come first, not last. That would mean the initials are the father's last name.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting pdf256: Quote:
Quoting ninehours:
Quote:
How should these two names be parsed
Annet//Wenhammar D.
Annet/Wenhammar/D.
Francisco//Gutierrez P.
Francisco/Gutierrez/P.
Or something else?
This is from a Mexican / Spanish production and both actors look to have Spanish style double last names. In both cases the mothers last name has been cut to a single letter. The correct parsing would be "Annet//Wenhammar D." and "Francisco//Gutierrez P.".
pdf Agree. BTW, "Gutierrez" is a common Hispanic surname in the US too. Gutierrez: Quote:
A surname (common: 1 in 1960 families; popularity rank in the U.S.: #202) GUTIERREZ - Name Meaning & Origin Quote:
Definition: A patronymic name meaning "son of Gutierre" (son of Walter). Gutierre is a given name meaning "he who rules."
Surname Origin: Spanish Quoting Skipnet50: Quote:
Based on the Rules there is only one answer [...] Could you please quote the Rule you are referring to? I don't know any specific Rule on parsing. Generally speaking, I would assume American-style A/B/C if we didn't have a clue. But this time we do have a clue (as PDF's argument shows), thus the most likely parsing. | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
I am a little confused as to how you came to this conclusion. If these are 'spanish style' double last names, the mother's last name would come first, not last. That would mean the initials are the father's last name. As far as I know, it's the other way round. Quoting Wikipedia: Quote:
Transmission of surnames
If, as is very common in Spanish-speaking families, Ángela López and Tomás Portillo choose to perpetuate their forenames into the next generation, their children would be Tomás Portillo López and Ángela Portillo López.
The order rule means that the surnames of the female branch get lost as generations pass.
[...]
the overwhelming majority of Spaniards continue to follow the traditional pattern of father's first and mother's second. | | | | -- Enry | | | | Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
Quoting pdf256:
Quote:
This is from a Mexican / Spanish production and both actors look to have Spanish style double last names. In both cases the mothers last name has been cut to a single letter. The correct parsing would be "Annet//Wenhammar D." and "Francisco//Gutierrez P.".
pdf
Agree.
BTW, "Gutierrez" is a common Hispanic surname in the US too. Yes, it is, but that does not support the assumption that pdf made. I did some research and found out which film this is from. The film title is 'El Ataque de los pájaros'. If you look at the complete credits, you will find that there are some obvious, to me anyway, double last names: Mariel Ramirez Carrera Ricardo Ramirez Carrera Jose Ramirez Carrera Mario Gómez López Mario Gutiérrez Pinilla Wenceslao Garcia Galeana Yes, it is common to have a double last name in hispanic culture. It is not, however, common to use an initial for the last portion of that last name. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
As far as I know, it's the other way round. My statement was based on experience with actual names and not 'spanish' rules. Not a single member of my family, on my mothers side, does it the way Wikipedia says it is done. Perhaps it is a regional thing. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Based on the Rules there is only one answer
Annet/Wenhammar/D.
Francisco/Gutierrez/P.
Sorry, Skip, but the Rules give us absolutely no guidance regarding parsing these names. If you can quote the exact verbiage from the Rules, I will retract my statement. I just have a hard time accepting that the "Last Names" of these people are "D." and "P." respectively. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
As far as I know, it's the other way round.
My statement was based on experience with actual names and not 'spanish' rules. Not a single member of my family, on my mothers side, does it the way Wikipedia says it is done. Perhaps it is a regional thing. OK, you must know much more than me on Hispanic names.  But, correct me if I am wrong, I gathered that the Spanish rule applies to Mexican last names too. http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/akirkcaldy/amyk0703.html Quote:
You see, here in Mexico, everyone has two last names. The first one is from the father and the second is from the mother. So Kirkcaldy is my dad's last name, and Levasseur is my mom's maiden name. Together, they form my Mexican name. Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Yes, it is, but that does not support the assumption that pdf made. I did some research and found out which film this is from. The film title is 'El Ataque de los pájaros'.
If you look at the complete credits, you will find that there are some obvious, to me anyway, double last names:
Mariel Ramirez Carrera
Ricardo Ramirez Carrera
Jose Ramirez Carrera
Mario Gómez López
Mario Gutiérrez Pinilla
Wenceslao Garcia Galeana So far, so good. Quote:
Yes, it is common to have a double last name in hispanic culture. It is not, however, common to use an initial for the last portion of that last name. OK, but how would you parse them? If we agree that Gutierrez is a last name, what else can P. be? Is there some some suffix like "Sr."? I only know of "(h)" for "hijo" (son), like Jr. | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Sorry, Skip, but the Rules give us absolutely no guidance regarding parsing these names.
If you can quote the exact verbiage from the Rules, I will retract my statement.
I just have a hard time accepting that the "Last Names" of these people are "D." and "P." respectively. I agree that the rules won't help here. But aren't you part of the group who favour word counting except when documented otherwise? To me those names look like Hispanic double barrelled last names (abbreviated) but I can't document this properly without any doubt. Anyway I would enter them as "Annet//Wenhammar D." and "Francisco//Gutierrez P.". But since my documentation is not strong enough I would not dare to change any existing "Annet/Wenhammar/D." or "Francisco/Gutierrez/P. ". |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
As far as I know, it's the other way round.
My statement was based on experience with actual names and not 'spanish' rules. Not a single member of my family, on my mothers side, does it the way Wikipedia says it is done. Perhaps it is a regional thing.
OK, you must know much more than me on Hispanic names.
But, correct me if I am wrong, I gathered that the Spanish rule applies to Mexican last names too.
http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/travel/akirkcaldy/amyk0703.html
Quote:
You see, here in Mexico, everyone has two last names. The first one is from the father and the second is from the mother. So Kirkcaldy is my dad's last name, and Levasseur is my mom's maiden name. Together, they form my Mexican name. That is why I said it must be a regional thing. My family is from Texas. They became US citizens when the US aquired Texas. It is quite possible that they adopted the use of the father's name because of that. Quote:
OK, but how would you parse them? If we agree that Gutierrez is a last name, what else can P. be?
Is there some some suffix like "Sr."?
I only know of "(h)" for "hijo" (son), like Jr. I don't know what the 'P.' could stand for. I will agree, that it does seem logical that it should be part of the last name but, as I said, I haven't seen that before. Though it does seem like a lot of my 'hispanic' culture has been Americanized.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
Quoting pdf256:
Quote:
Quoting ninehours:
Quote:
How should these two names be parsed
Annet//Wenhammar D.
Annet/Wenhammar/D.
Francisco//Gutierrez P.
Francisco/Gutierrez/P.
Or something else?
This is from a Mexican / Spanish production and both actors look to have Spanish style double last names. In both cases the mothers last name has been cut to a single letter. The correct parsing would be "Annet//Wenhammar D." and "Francisco//Gutierrez P.".
pdf
Agree.
BTW, "Gutierrez" is a common Hispanic surname in the US too.
Gutierrez:
Quote:
A surname (common: 1 in 1960 families; popularity rank in the U.S.: #202)
GUTIERREZ - Name Meaning & Origin
Quote:
Definition: A patronymic name meaning "son of Gutierre" (son of Walter). Gutierre is a given name meaning "he who rules."
Surname Origin: Spanish
Quoting Skipnet50:
Quote:
Based on the Rules there is only one answer
[...]
Could you please quote the Rule you are referring to? I don't know any specific Rule on parsing.
Generally speaking, I would assume American-style A/B/C if we didn't have a clue.
But this time we do have a clue (as PDF's argument shows), thus the most likely parsing. You can read the Rules as well as I can, Enry. I am tired of you deliverately making this far more difficult than it is or has to be. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
You can read the Rules as well as I can, Enry.
Skip I have read the Rules. There's nothing there about how to parse these names. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
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