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Russia
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrokhopa
Registered: May 9, 2007
Australia Posts: 37
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Can anyone explain why Russia does not appear under the list of countries? We have all sorts of minnows but Russia is a big movie producer. The Former Soviet Union is an unacceptable alternative.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBerak
Bibamus morieundum est!
Registered: May 10, 2007
Norway Posts: 1,059
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Quoting rokhopa:
Quote:
Can anyone explain why Russia does not appear under the list of countries? We have all sorts of minnows but Russia is a big movie producer. The Former Soviet Union is an unacceptable alternative.


I agree that Former Soviet Union doesn't cut it, and would also like to see Russia implemented in a future release. For now I guess tags will have to do...   

Edit; And I see Kulji has the request noted in his excellent pinned thread about Feature Requests 
Berak

It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all!
 Last edited: by Berak
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 6,018
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As to why, my hypothesis would be that Ken also wanted to accommodate the large amount of films that were produced during the Soviet era, as it would be incorrect to list them as Russia. But that's just speculation on my part.

But you're quite right the system needs adjustments, and this is just one of them - Iran was discussed recently, to name just one example. Especially since we have Estonia as a separate CoO, which could also be classified as "Former Soviet Union" (no insult intended to any fellow Estonian users, I'm well aware of the sensitivities!). That's like having USA and California as separate CoO's...

To be correct, we would need Soviet Union (WITHOUT the Former) for pre-1991 movies and the independent former Soviet republics (as far as they have produced movies which have been released on DVD) for movies since 1991.
 Last edited: by dee1959jay
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhydr0x
Registered: April 4, 2007
Germany Posts: 884
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Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote:
As to why, my hypothesis would be that Ken also wanted to accommodate the large amount of films that were produced during the Soviet era, as it would be incorrect to list them as Russia. But that's just speculation on my part.

But you're quite right the system needs adjustments, and this is just one of them - Iran was discussed recently, to name just one example. Especially since we have Estonia as a separate CoO, which could also be classified as "Former Soviet Union" (no insult intended to any fellow Estonian users, I'm well aware of the sensitivities!). That's like having USA and California as separate CoO's...

To be correct, we would need Soviet Union (WITHOUT the Former) for pre-1991 movies and the independent former Soviet republics (as far as they have produced movies which have been released on DVD) for movies since 1991.


As far as I'm concerned we'd only need Russia and the now independent countries. Russia would cover current Russia and whatever's considered a part of Russian cinema production history. We have  a similar situation in Germany. The only CoO we have is Germany and we combine movies from the united Germany, West Germany, GDR, Nazi-Germany, Weimar and the Kaiserreich under this. I've never seen a German user complain about that. So I can't see why we can't do the same for Russia. There are other examples of out ther of CoO that cover more than one existing or past nation.
- Jan
 Last edited: by hydr0x
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
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Quoting hydr0x:
Quote:

As far as I'm concerned we'd only need Russia and the now independent countries. Russia would cover current Russia and whatever's considered a part of Russian cinema production history. We have  a similar situation in Germany. The only CoO we have is Germany and we combine movies from the united Germany, West Germany, GDR, Nazi-Germany, Weimar and the Kaiserreich under this. I've never seen a German user complain about that. So I can't see why we can't do the same for Russia. There are other examples of out ther of CoO that cover more than one existing or past nation.


Germany includes both BRD and DDR. Russia doesn't include all USSR republics.
BRD and DDR were both Germany.
Estonia, Ukraine and so, never were "Russian".
-- Enry
 Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantnaersjoen
Registered: December 7, 2008
Posts: 9
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Quoting hydr0x:
Quote:
The only CoO we have is Germany and we combine movies from the united Germany, West Germany, GDR, Nazi-Germany, Weimar and the Kaiserreich under this. I've never seen a German user complain about that.


Consider me the first to complain.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 6,018
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Well, the difference is that whereas you in Germany went through unification, the change in the former Soviet Union went the other way around. And not all Soviet films were actually Russian productions. Just one example is Tsemen (or "Chermeni"), a 1970 film from what is now Georgia.

In theory you could class this as Georgian (if such a CoO existed), but would that be correct? Hmmm... In addition, it would require research by anyone submitting a Soviet film to find out whether it was actually Russian or came from somewhere else within the former Soviet Union.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhydr0x
Registered: April 4, 2007
Germany Posts: 884
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Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote:
Well, the difference is that whereas you in Germany went through unification, the change in the former Soviet Union went the other way around. And not all Soviet films were actually Russian productions. Just one example is Tsemen (or "Chermeni"), a 1970 film from what is now Georgia.


You seem to miss the fact that I also mentioned the Germany before 1945. That included a lot of regions that are now parts of other CoO but those movies are still entered as Germany.

Quote:

In theory you could class this as Georgian (if such a CoO existed), but would that be correct? Hmmm... In addition, it would require research by anyone submitting a Soviet film to find out whether it was actually Russian or came from somewhere else within the former Soviet Union.


Well, this wouldn't be different if you'd split up (current) Russia and the Soviet Union, you'd still have to decide if that movie should be entered as Georgia or Soviet Union. And what with movies made before the Soviet Union?
- Jan
 Last edited: by hydr0x
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhydr0x
Registered: April 4, 2007
Germany Posts: 884
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Quoting naersjoen:
Quote:
Quoting hydr0x:
Quote:
The only CoO we have is Germany and we combine movies from the united Germany, West Germany, GDR, Nazi-Germany, Weimar and the Kaiserreich under this. I've never seen a German user complain about that.


Consider me the first to complain.


Well, what's the alternative? Add DDR as a country? What country list would you propose to wholly cover all the political developments in German cinema? And more important, how would that be more truthful to German cinema history than just using Germany is? After all, movies like Metropolis or Triumph of the Will are usually referred to as German
- Jan
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBerak
Bibamus morieundum est!
Registered: May 10, 2007
Norway Posts: 1,059
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Quoting hydr0x:
Quote:
Quoting naersjoen:
Quote:
Quoting hydr0x:
Quote:
The only CoO we have is Germany and we combine movies from the united Germany, West Germany, GDR, Nazi-Germany, Weimar and the Kaiserreich under this. I've never seen a German user complain about that.


Consider me the first to complain.


Well, what's the alternative? Add DDR as a country? What country list would you propose to wholly cover all the political developments in German cinema? And more important, how would that be more truthful to German cinema history than just using Germany is? After all, movies like Metropolis or Triumph of the Will are usually referred to as German


So true! Well put hydrOx! 
Berak

It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
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@hydr0x

Estonia (like many other ex USSR republics) was a part of the USSR, not a part of Soviet Russia.

Calling "Russian" an Estonian film would be like calling, say, "Prussian" a movie made in Bavaria, or "Californian" a movie made by a New York studio (if we had regional CoOs).
-- Enry
 Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
No, I iz no Cheshire Cat!
Registered: August 22, 2007
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Quoting hydr0x:
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[...] After all, movies like Metropolis or Triumph of the Will are usually referred to as German


After all, the production studio of Metropolis, Universum-Film AG (UFA), was located in Berlin, correct me if I am mistaken.
-- Enry
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantnaersjoen
Registered: December 7, 2008
Posts: 9
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Quoting hydr0x:
Quote:
Quoting hydr0x:
Well, what's the alternative? Add DDR as a country? What country list would you propose to wholly cover all the political developments in German cinema?


http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=334766&messageID=862584#M862584

Quote:
And more important, how would that be more truthful to German cinema history than just using Germany is?


For one thing it would be... accurate.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwhispering
On ne passe pas!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 1,380
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Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
Quoting hydr0x:
Quote:

As far as I'm concerned we'd only need Russia and the now independent countries. Russia would cover current Russia and whatever's considered a part of Russian cinema production history. We have  a similar situation in Germany. The only CoO we have is Germany and we combine movies from the united Germany, West Germany, GDR, Nazi-Germany, Weimar and the Kaiserreich under this. I've never seen a German user complain about that. So I can't see why we can't do the same for Russia. There are other examples of out ther of CoO that cover more than one existing or past nation.


Germany includes both BRD and DDR. Russia doesn't include all USSR republics.
BRD and DDR were both Germany.
Estonia, Ukraine and so, never were "Russian".


CoO for Estonia SSR should be Estonia and Ukrainian SSR should be Ukraine IMO.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorStaid S Barr
Registered: Oct 16, 2003
Registered: May 9, 2007
Netherlands Posts: 1,536
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Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote:
Well, the difference is that whereas you in Germany went through unification, the change in the former Soviet Union went the other way around. And not all Soviet films were actually Russian productions. Just one example is Tsemen (or "Chermeni"), a 1970 film from what is now Georgia.

In theory you could class this as Georgian (if such a CoO existed), but would that be correct? Hmmm... In addition, it would require research by anyone submitting a Soviet film to find out whether it was actually Russian or came from somewhere else within the former Soviet Union.


And that's not even considering to support about 200 languages (more than India).
Hans
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhydr0x
Registered: April 4, 2007
Germany Posts: 884
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Quoting naersjoen:
Quote:

http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=334766&messageID=862584#M862584


where's Germany in that post?!

Quote:
And more important, how would that be more truthful to German cinema history than just using Germany is?


For one thing it would be... accurate.

WHAT would be accurate? If a German movie was produced let's say (hypothetically) in Kaliningrad in 1940, would you have to add that as Germany, as Third Reich or even as Russia. If you state this would be more accurate you should come up with a more accurate classification of nationalities that

a) works
b) is actually more accurate than the current solution
c) doesn't require users to put 1h research into every movie
d) doesn't destroy functionality of the program

Quote:

Estonia (like many other ex USSR republics) was a part of the USSR, not a part of Soviet Russia.


Where did I say Soviet Russia?!

I also did not propose to call an Estonian movie Russian. What I said was that if he have the current range of Former USSR countries (Russia, Ukraine, Estonia etc.) as CoO, there would be no need for something like "Former Soviet Union" or whatever.
- Jan
 Last edited: by hydr0x
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