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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1  Previous   Next
Classic genre
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
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I'm no fan of the Classic genre, because it is so subjective. However, since we have it, it would be nice to have some idea of what "classic" means. And what it does not mean.

The reason I bring this up is because of this, is a current contribution:
Quote:
This film isn't a 'Classic'. From Wikipedia:
"The film was a critical failure. Although the film was marketed as a tribute to Sellers, it was widely panned by critics. "

I have heard a lot of criteria being mentioned in connection with the term "Classic", but critical success hasn't been one of them.
I, for one, would consider "Plan 9 from Outer Space" a classic, for example.

Any thoughts?
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
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The definition of Classic is "judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind."

But as you say it's very subjective.

For example, It's a Wonderful Life was critically panned when it first came out, but now is considered a classic.
So who knows. What is critically panned today may become a classic decades from now.
So I wouldn't take critics opinions into consideration here.

I think at least these are the criteria I would apply to Classic.
1. 20 Years old or older.
2. Considered to be something with high watch-ability (But that too is subjective).
3. Often copied. (Such as Alien, how many similar films are based on the same basic premise of that film).
4. Often mentioned in Pop Culture.

So for recent films, let's take the Back to the Future trilogy. I would only apply Classic to the first film.
For the Star Wars films, probably the first trilogy.
For Star Trek, I'd include Star Trek II and Star Trek IV as Classics.
For the Road Warrior films, probably Mad Max and The Road Warrior.
For the Alien Franchise, probably just Alien and Aliens.

I think you can see a trend.

For really old films, I'd probably apply Classic to such films as King Kong, The Wizard of Oz, Gone with the Wind, From Here to Eternity, The Bridge on the River Kwai, War of the Worlds, When Worlds Collide, Planet of the Apes (1968) and many others.

I may also take into consideration Oscar winners and those nominated too.

As far as Plan 9 from Outer Space, personally I don't think it's a classic.
You asked what it does not mean, well think of just about any films made for the SyFy channel and you get the idea of bad films that I don't think anyone would ever consider to be classic. So films that are just badly acted, badly directed, cheap effects and bad script I would not consider to be Classic. But some may.

But in the end, that leaves many, many films that are neither bad or worthy of the label Classic. Doesn't mean that they aren't good or even worthy of the label Classic by some people.

But in the end, it's a very subjective Genre/Label.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Putting "Classic" among the genres was always a really bad idea. It shouldn't have been included as a genre in the first place, simply because it's *too* subjective. Even setting "normal" genres is already pretty subjective, but whether to call something a "Classic" just isn't something we're ever going to agree on. There's a reason why sites like IMDb or Blu-ray.com don't include "Classic" as a genre - there's just no universal way to define it. DVD Profiler should not have done this either, and if only someone still maintained this software, it should be scrapped from the list of genres right now.

With that in mind, I haven't assigned "Classic" to a single one of my profiles - even though I may personally feel that there may be about a thousand classics in there. But it's not a genre, so I don't use it. Similarly, I would happily vote "yes" to any contribution that proposed to remove "Classic" from any profile that has it listed. So, I would vote "yes" to the example GSyren gave - not because I agree or disagree with the notion that critical success has something to do with qualifying as a "Classic", but simply because I would welcome *any* removal of this non-genre.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I'm another who doesn't think it really belongs. If I do assign something as a classic I keep it local.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Count me as another one that doesn't think it belongs.

But since we have it and stuck with it for the time being, talking about what is or isn't a Classic is helpful for those that choose to use that Genre.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting CubbyUps:
Quote:
The definition of Classic is "judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind."

That's one definiton. It's not like there is one definitive definition. Merriam-Webster also lists "historically memorable". But even if we go by your definition, a critical flop doesn't mean that it can't have been judged quite differently over time.

And just to make it clear, my question was not if Classic is a viable genre. That's a whole different question. I just wanted to know if you agree that a critical failure disqualifies a movie as a classic.
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
Quoting CubbyUps:
Quote:
The definition of Classic is "judged over a period of time to be of the highest quality and outstanding of its kind."

That's one definiton. It's not like there is one definitive definition. Merriam-Webster also lists "historically memorable". But even if we go by your definition, a critical flop doesn't mean that it can't have been judged quite differently over time.

And just to make it clear, my question was not if Classic is a viable genre. That's a whole different question. I just wanted to know if you agree that a critical failure disqualifies a movie as a classic.


Think you missed this part.
Quote:
For example, It's a Wonderful Life was critically panned when it first came out, but now is considered a classic.
So who knows. What is critically panned today may become a classic decades from now.
So I wouldn't take critics opinions into consideration here.


So no, a critical failure does not disqualify a movie from being considered a classic.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
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Sorry CubbyUps, that wasn't meant to be directed especially to you. I realized that you agreed with me. I was curious about opinion from others.
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
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I would also say no to that as well.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Mad Scientist at work!
Registered: May 26, 2007
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I've removed "Classic" from every one of my local profiles.  If I was going to ascribe some definition to it as a genre, I would apply it only to "classic Hollywood" - so films pre-1968.  (Wikipedia)

That would be considerably too broad, but trying to say that one film or another is a "classic" is too subjective, IMO, to get any consensus on.  Classic has snuck into my local must recently for How to Stuff a Wild Bikini and Beach Blanket Bingo, which I guess could be loosely considered "cult classics" but are in no way actual classics.



In other genre related stuff ...

I've removed "Family" from my local as I find that it has been applied to everything from G rated cartoons made primarily for kids (or the "whole family") to serious adult dramas that happen to be about families, rendering it moot as a genre, and "Children's" since my personal definition of that one would apply to films for ONLY small children (such as toddler DVDs) rather than stuff like Disney films.

Another thing that really gets me is seeing a lot of documentaries marked "Special Interest."  If a documentary about astronomy is "Special Interest" because it means you have a special interest in astronomy, then every film is "Special Interest" because it could be said to appeal to those people who have a special interest in whatever the film is particularly about.  I very much think that genre should only be used for things that aren't covered by any other genre - such as exercise DVDs, instructional videos, or purely experimental stuff like Stan Brakhage's films.
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
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 Last edited: by Danae Cassandra
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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I would agree with Gunnar that being a critical failure is irrelevant for determining whether a film is a classic or not.
At the same time, I do not consider Classic to be a genre in the first place, so I'd agree with those who say it has no place there.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorThe Movieman
DVDP User Since 2007
Registered: March 18, 2007
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Yeah, not sure why Classic was included in the first place.

And BTW, not to remind people how old they are, but under CubbyUp's criteria, something like Groundhog Day could be labeled as a classic. 
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributormreeder50
I was out of bullets
Registered: March 29, 2007
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I personally use Classic on several movies.
Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorThe Movieman
DVDP User Since 2007
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Quoting mreeder50:
Quote:
I personally use Classic on several movies.


And submitted?

IDK, seems like a better fit as a custom genre.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorObiKen
Registered: October 22, 2015
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Genre is a recurring style, pattern or theme you recognise straight-away when watching a film.

"Classic" is not really a genre because it is not recognisable straight-away, it is formed over time, cross-overs many main genre types and has no recurring style, pattern or theme.

It's definitely a film category, but just not a genre.
 Last edited: by ObiKen
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAndyEN
Registered: May 25, 2007
Posts: 43
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Of course some people refer to "instant classic" which further muddies things. I suspect the reason the category exists is that some video stores have used the category in their rental/sales. Personally if I'm cloning a profile as a starting point for creating a new submission, I won't take it out before submitting, but I won't add it as a category either.
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