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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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HD DVD and Blu-ray |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Do you usually pick out the lowest priced A/V receiver wen you go shopping for one? Do you just pick the lowest priced TV when you go to purchase one? Do you just pick the lowest priced speakers when you are shopping for them? Or, do you compare specs when comparing items? I thought you said you worked in retail.  That is exactly how the average consumer shops. They look at price first THEN they compare features. They then decide whether or not they want to pay the extra price for the extra features. Quote:
If you DON'T know how to read them, you can be EASILY convinced that they don't really matter. If that group of people vote as the majority, they would doom ALL the others to their limits. That would be MIGHTY selfish wouldn't it? Think about it. You need to get in touch with reality. The average consumer is the majority and specs are the last thing they look at. Price first, then features then, maybe, specs. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: September 7, 2007 | | Posts: 265 |
| | Posted: | | | | What seems selfish to me is trying to force overpriced merchandise on the general population when there is no basis for the higher cost other than corporate greed...
We would be doomed? My God, you make it sound like the planet would implode without 20 extra gigs and a little extra bandwidth.
I know how to read the specs. I'm also intelligent enough to be able to see past them when appropriate. If Blu-ray was truly superior it would show in the final product by continually trouncing HD DVD in quality. That has not been the case. Unless of course you consider identical picture quality and no substantial difference (if any) in real world audio quality a solid win. I'm not foolish enough to buy in to marketing campaigns. | | | | Last edited: by twojayz |
| | Registered: September 7, 2007 | | Posts: 265 |
| | Posted: | | | | Asc - you're about $80 off on your Black Friday prediction...Check the ads, there will be no $300 Blu-ray player this year. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Do you usually pick out the lowest priced A/V receiver wen you go shopping for one? Do you just pick the lowest priced TV when you go to purchase one? Do you just pick the lowest priced speakers when you are shopping for them? Or, do you compare specs when comparing items?
I thought you said you worked in retail.
That is exactly how the average consumer shops. They look at price first THEN they compare features. They then decide whether or not they want to pay the extra price for the extra features.
Quote:
If you DON'T know how to read them, you can be EASILY convinced that they don't really matter. If that group of people vote as the majority, they would doom ALL the others to their limits. That would be MIGHTY selfish wouldn't it? Think about it.
You need to get in touch with reality. The average consumer is the majority and specs are the last thing they look at. Price first, then features then, maybe, specs. Like I said before, specs are used by most people across MANY areas of their life. It's just human nature. We want to know what makes something different from something else besides price. I did work part-time as a sales person at Tweeter/HiFi Buys. I already know what I've seen on average. That's why I'm posing these questions to all of you. So, what are you confused about? | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting twojayz: Quote:
What seems selfish to me is trying to force overpriced merchandise on the general population when there is no basis for the higher cost other than corporate greed... That would be quite silly since prices come down. All you would have to do is jump in when the price is in your particular range. It seems you have forgotten ALL about DVD. This is the NORMAL cycle for the introduction of a new CE product. You should know that. That's why your argument here makes no sense. Quote:
We would be doomed? My God, you make it sound like the planet would implode without 20 extra gigs and a little extra bandwidth. Would the planet implode WITH 20 extra gigs, over 60% increase in bandwidth, and more software capabilities over the next 10 to 15 years? Would the world not be a better place WITH these things?Quote:
I know how to read the specs. I'm also intelligent enough to be able to see past them when appropriate. So you claim, but one doesn't usually respond like you have when understanding them. For instance, someone could claim to know how to drive a car. But, if they keep crashing into things, would that support their claim? Quote:
If Blu-ray was truly superior it would show in the final product by continually trouncing HD DVD in quality. Again, this is telling me you don't understand how the film to disc process works. You could have 4K consumer disc format, but CERTAIN films just won't look better. That's why you have to compare titles that are OPTIMIZED for each format. ALL title have been optimized for HD DVD from neutral studios. The same can NOT be said for Blu-ray. The ONLY title that has been optimized for BOTH formats is Nature's Journey. Better quality titles have a better chance of shines of Blu-ray than HD DVD BECAUSE of the extra bandwidth AND space available. But, I've posted an article that shows an increase in PQ over time for Blu-ray and a decline in PQ over time for HD DVD. Quote:
That has not been the case. Unless of course you consider identical picture quality and no substantial difference (if any) in real world audio quality a solid win. I'm not foolish enough to buy in to marketing campaigns. Real world audio? That's funny. People can tell the difference between Dolby Digital @448Kbps and DD @640Kbps. People can tell the difference between DD @640Kbps and DD+ @1.5Mbps. But, all of a sudden NO ONE can tell the difference between DD+ @1.5Mbps and DD TrueHD @3Mbps or @6Mbps?! Why, just because your format of choice can't accommodate it in a lot of situations? Please. That doesn't even sound right (pun intended). You ended up buying into something TRULY foolish. You bought into someone that easily looks suspicious when looking at the immediate past differences. They seem have gotten you with the cheapest of marketing campaigns... WORD OF MOUTH.  | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting twojayz: Quote:
Asc - you're about $80 off on your Black Friday prediction...Check the ads, there will be no $300 Blu-ray player this year. Did you forget I already posted the article, a few pages back, that had a BD player for $249? They one previously for $299.  | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: September 7, 2007 | | Posts: 265 |
| | Posted: | | | | You simply cannot compare two different films on two different formats and say anything conclusive about the format itself. What basline for comparison is there when two totally different products are used? So, 300 looks great on HD DVD and on Blu-ray, and the audio is equally impressive on both formats. However try to compare Transformers to Spiderman and it's a totally different ball game. I don't understand why that causes confusion for you? If you're saying that the added bandwidth makes a visually noticeable improvement, what are you comparing it to? You refer to ONE single title. That's it. One title isn't a reference point for discussion or coparison. It's a start yes, but nothing can is definitive from a single experiment. How do you compare Master and Commander to Pride and Prejudice?
Prices are coming down, I'm not arguing that. I know early adoption is "costly". Not arguing that either.
The outcome of this "war" really doesn't make the world better or worse. I'm not the one who claimed that we would all be "doomed". Such a dire and depressing prediction.
At what point have I said anything to make you believe that I either don't understand the tech specs or am just too stupid to comprehend them? Oh, because I don't own Blu-ray? Is that it?
I never said that no one can hear a difference. I said that it is not enough of a difference to most people. There's a big difference between having the difference and having a difference that most people feel is worth the added cost. That's if MOST people actually give a shiitake mushroom about bandwidth to begin with. I hate to burst your bubble but most people don't. They want a quality experience which HD DVD is fully capable of delivering, as is Blu-ray.
Since you seem to think I don't have a solid understanding of the technology we're discussing please by all means test it. I bet I do better than your 2/5...
Since you DO know so much about everything please explain to me the concept of perceptual encoding both from an audio and visual perspective. You do realize that all video encodes utilize perceptual processing as well, right? |
| | Registered: September 7, 2007 | | Posts: 265 |
| | Posted: | | | | One other thing Asc, I've been following this format war closely for a long time, well before any hardware was ever introduced to the market. I didn't make any decisions based on word of mouth or friendly persuasion. I made the choice to support HD DVD very early on because I felt it had the best chance at mass adoption. Then I waited nearly two years to see how it played out before making a purchase. I obviously still feel that HD DVD has the best chance of winning. If it didn't I don't think it would still be here.
In that time I've paid close attention to Blu-ray as well. My initial reaction was much like everyone else, I though it was crap. Over time though that perception has changed for me. I have repeatedly said that Blu-ray is capable of delivering a breathtaking experience. I've considered going neutral just to have a handful of titles in HD but at this time can't justify the cost for a limited collection of material. When Blu-ray players come down, probably another 50% of where they are now I might reconsider. For me the catalog isn't as good on Blu-ray as it is with HD DVD, which also factored into my decision. The majority of my collection is from WB, Paramount, Dreamworks and Universal. All neutral or exclusive. If I had chosen Blu-ray I would be missing out on more titles that I would really want.
Each person is going to have a reason for supporting either format. I don't have any desire to argue that. There is no arguing personal preference. I made the informed decision to support HD DVD and for you to claim that I don't know anything and that I "bought into something foolish" is shameful on your part. I researched and paid attention for 3 years before dropping a dime into the ring and before making a final decision. To imply that I did it blindly or am so naive that I'm incapable of making a qualified decision that best suits me is absolutely pathetic. Especially because the only basis for that type of statement comes from the fact that I chose HD DVD over Blu-ray... |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Like I said before, specs are used by most people across MANY areas of their life. It's just human nature. We want to know what makes something different from something else besides price. Like I said before, you need to get in touch with reality. Price is the number one determining factor for most people. That is why most retailers stress price in all of their ads...because it is just human nature. Quote:
I did work part-time as a sales person at Tweeter/HiFi Buys. I already know what I've seen on average. That's why I'm posing these questions to all of you. So, what are you confused about? Well, that explains a lot. Tweeter is a 'specialty' store. The people that go there are not the average consumer. Go work at a Best Buy, a Circuit City or even a Target. That is where the 'average' consumer shops and, as I said earlier, they look at price over specs. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Would the planet implode WITH 20 extra gigs, over 60% increase in bandwidth, and more software capabilities over the next 10 to 15 years? Would the world not be a better place WITH these things? Are you serious? What say we ask the people in Darfu that question. I wonder what their answer would be? No, the world would not be a better place "with 20 extra gigs, over 60% increase in bandwidth, and more software capabilities over the next 10 to 15 years." As I said, you need to get in touch with reality.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Unicus, You really are trying hard aren't you? ...bless your heart. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 844 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quote:
I did work part-time as a sales person at Tweeter/HiFi Buys. I already know what I've seen on average. That's why I'm posing these questions to all of you. So, what are you confused about?
Well, that explains a lot. Tweeter is a 'specialty' store. The people that go there are not the average consumer. Go work at a Best Buy, a Circuit City or even a Target. That is where the 'average' consumer shops and, as I said earlier, they look at price over specs. No doubt he was fired for harassing customers into leaving the store. The Giant ASC has the salesmanship and personality of a plague-carrying rat. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Unicus,
You really are trying hard aren't you? ...bless your heart. Not at all. You make it, "Too Easy, Drill Sergeant! Too Easy!" | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
I did work part-time as a sales person at Tweeter/HiFi Buys. I already know what I've seen on average. That's why I'm posing these questions to all of you. So, what are you confused about? Part-time sales? How does that work? What did you do for your full time job...sweep the floors?  | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: September 7, 2007 | | Posts: 265 |
| | Posted: | | | | Still waiting on the HD master, you know, the WellInformed Giant Asc...Come out and play. |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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