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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am going to stop using the term consensus as there is no parliamentary definition for that that i am aware of. Is a consensus 60%, 75% or 99%. Since someone has called this into question earlier, I will fall back to Congress speak which I can define. The current poll stands at 62.5% against which is a super-majority, the original poll was 72.7+% which is more than enough to override a presidential veto.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | We currently have a consensus (<--definition) in terms of a majority. We haven't achieved general agreement or... harmony.  That would be quite a high bar for us to clear.  EDIT: "We" meaning those of us who have voted in this poll and not the entire user base. Just thought I'd throw in that disclaimer to save someone a post.  | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan | | | | Last edited: by m.cellophane |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I just checked my RROO (Robert's Rules of Order, like I said there is no parliamentary definition, James. I know what the dictionary defniition is.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | For the benefit of others then... | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Me neither. In fact, I'm very pleased with the results so far. Of course we're going to have the usual batch of sourpusses voting against anything that makes any kind of sense - what else is new? - but it's pretty clear that it's not the slam dunk they hoped for. Especially since I'm convinced - based on what I'm seeing in the database - that the "silent majority", those that hardly ever visit the forums, let alone engage in these silly debates, perfectly knows how to handle any "supervising" credit, no matter whether it's one for a producer, an editor or a re-recording mixer. And quite rightly so, of course: these are all important and valid credits, and it makes absolutely no sense to leave them out of our database. Based on what I am seeing in the database, this 'silent majority' is also entering IMDb data. Funny that you don't seem to believe that is proper. Why then is this proper? Oh, wait, because it supports your personal preference.  And what does it matter how important or valid the credits are? There are a lot of credits, that are more 'important' than Supervising Producer, that are left out. Shall we start shoehorning them in as well? Stan Winston and Ray Harryhausen are certainly more important than most of the people we do include. Can I shoehorn them in somewhere? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
let's remember that YOU claimed there was a consensus supporting your position
Let's remember that there are other users, like Pantheon, who confirm that there was indeed such a consensus / agreement. I can't help it that you changed your mind. He hasn't confirmed anything. All he did was make a claim, the same way you did, that you have refused to substantiate. I wonder why it is you have failed to provide proof of this concensus? Maybe because there never was one? Both Skip and James have confirmed that there was no such concensus / agreement. James even did the research and found proof of his claim. Yet you persist in claiming that they are wrong. You go so far as to accuse Skip of 'changing his mind.' I wonder why Pantheon's unsubstantiated claim carries more weight? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
I always enter SP as Producer.
I'm sure I remember the rules committee making a statement to the fact that the rules should have mentioned Supervisiing Producer in the same way that Supervising Art Producer is mentioned and that is was an error on the part of Invelos that resulted in this being omitted in the rules. It doesn't matter whether or not it was an error. The fact remains that it did NOT make it into the rules...something you freely admit. Since it did not make it into the rules, entering it is against the rules. Fairly simple and straight forward. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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  | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
It doesn't matter whether or not it was an error. The fact remains that it did NOT make it into the rules...something you freely admit. Since it did not make it into the rules, entering it is against the rules. Just like art directors, apparently... As for the rest - have a look at the latest exchange between me and Skip on the last page (the interesting stuff starts about halfway) of the other thread: things are looking up a bit, it seems. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
It doesn't matter whether or not it was an error. The fact remains that it did NOT make it into the rules...something you freely admit. Since it did not make it into the rules, entering it is against the rules.
Just like art directors, apparently... You don't seem to be paying attention to what I have said...though I am not surprised. 'Art Directors' are in the crew chart. That means they made it into the rules. Quote:
As for the rest - have a look at the latest exchange between me and Skip on the last page (the interesting stuff starts about halfway) of the other thread: things are looking up a bit, it seems. I have read that exchange. You are trying to lure Skip into a trap. I hope he doesn't fall for it. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
You are trying to lure Skip into a trap. I hope he doesn't fall for it. I most certainly am not! There isn't even anything to fall for. I'm just glad to find out that he actually values (and profiles) most "supervising" credits just as much as I do. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
You are trying to lure Skip into a trap. I hope he doesn't fall for it.
I most certainly am not! There isn't even anything to fall for. I'm just glad to find out that he actually values (and profiles) most "supervising" credits just as much as I do. T!M, WTF are you up to? The "supervising" credits that Skip credits according to your link are just the supervisors that are mentionend in the rules. So I can't see where Skip is closing in on your point, what I can see though, is that you again make a statement and give a link to support this and when one follows your link to verify your statement he'll find the opposite of your statement. Sorry, credibility lost! Go home, do some homework. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | I suggest you actually READ the posts, instead of just scrolling by them... That might help. |
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| Registered: May 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,730 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes,
I read this post.
Unlike you Skip is talking about his local database and about data he may contribute if the rules cover this.
As for the SE (supervising editor) I suggest you read the crew-spreadsheet section "Sound". The SE is not automatically disallowed. In the row with the SAD and the SE the "and so forth" could be understood as the other rule-compatible supervisors.
But I understand that if one wants to read it the way you did, one could see your interpretation as well. | | | It all seems so stupid, it makes me want to give up!
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid?
Registrant since 05/22/2003 |
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| T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting goblinsdoitall: Quote:
Yes,
I read this post, but unlike you Skip is talking about his local database and about data he may contribute if the rules cover this. Yes, and I was talking about that as well. I'm very pleased to find out that Skip is actually tracking these people (supervising editors & supervising sound mixers) in his local database. Those categories are a big part of why I'm fighting this so hard, because they're affected by the same thing: the reasons people used to insist that we cannot enter supervising producers, meant that supervising editors and supervising sound mixers would have to go too. Now it appears that Skip is locally tracking these the same way I do, and I was glad to see that. For two days, he had me believe he was vehemently against entering ANY such credits, and now I find that he DOES value them like I do - with supervising producers as the exception. So here we appear to want the same thing for at least two thirds of the problem. Now I realize that doesn't mean anything in itself - it seems we'll still need Ken to "fix" this. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think some people confuse other's positions on the rules as equivalent to whether they "want" or "like" something. Interpretations of the rules are separate from what one wants.
My responses on this topic are different in the Feature Request forum ("wants") than here in the Contribution Discussion ("rules"). | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
You are trying to lure Skip into a trap. I hope he doesn't fall for it.
I most certainly am not! There isn't even anything to fall for. I'm just glad to find out that he actually values (and profiles) most "supervising" credits just as much as I do. Which means absolutely nothing as far as the rules are concerned. The trap I am talking about is the one where you take his willingness to enter those credits and twist it to mean he should also be willing to enter SP. If that is not the direction you were headed, then I apologize. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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