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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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Why Can't You Just Leave Them Alone |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Kulju: Quote:
Quoting Alien Redrum:
Quote:
As a book adaptation, The Shining sucked. As a movie, it's fine. King is absolutely correct in hating this as an adaptation of his novel.
You liked his version better? I like them both, but for decent reasons. As a book adaptation, the mini-series is leagues better. The movie doesn't even touch it. But there's a lot I like about the film version that the mini-series can't touch (like a lot of the visuals). Kubrick completely missed the point of the novel. Quoting Kulju: Quote:
If I remember correctly King didn't give his blessing for the movie in first place, so it's pretty unlikely that he would be praising the movie on promotional purposes. I was not aware of that. I had only heard he liked that Kubrick was making a movie of his work, and had actually submitted Shining scripts to Kubrick, which he (Kubrick) ultimately rejected. Quote:
And what comes to adaptations, I think it's completely off-topic. We are talking about remakes. Half of the movies are adaptations of some novel, short story, comic book etc, but if they are any good or not, is irrelevant for this conversation. I admit that it isn't exactly the same thing as a remake, more like a different adaptation of the same story, but compare Kubrick's Shining to that TV-series written by King... it isn't hard to say which one is better. I agree with that for the most part (except the last line). You really can't compare the two (although it's hard not to). But they really are vastly different movies. One is based on a book, one is not. The movie version loses all of the themes from the book (like many of King's adaptations) and is nothing more than a guy going crazy and killing his family. As a book adaptation, it sucks. The casting is wrong (Duvall is horribly miscast), the premise of the book is lost and it makes Jack a shell of his character in the novel. However, as a straight horror movie, it's good. It took me a while, but over the years I learned to appreciate it for what it is because for the longest time, I found it hard not to compare it to King's novel. That's not to say the mini-series isn't flawed. The more times I watch it, the more the kid annoys me, Pebbles is no Scatman Crothers, but Rebecca De Mornay and Steven Weber are much more believable as a husband and wife than Nicholson and Duvall (in a book to film context). Don't get me wrong, I like both, but for different reasons. If you were to say "What has the better scenes?" I'd say the movie. But if you were to ask "What is the better adaptation?", the mini-series, hands down, no contest. Out of curiosity, have you read the book? Because, to be honest, I've never talked to someone who felt the movie was a better adaptation. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. | | | | Last edited: by Alien Redrum |
| | Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | The book stands alone. Although I don't like all of King's novels, The Shining is great. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | No, no...you're thinking of the cheese.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 10, 2009 | | Posts: 2,248 |
| | Posted: | | | | In the space of 4 days this thread has gotten over 80 posts and 400 views. Guess i touched a nerve  | | | | Last edited: by ShinyDiscGuy |
| | Registered: May 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,934 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm not going to comment about US remakes of foreign films, but remakes of US films, has left me dry most of the time.
Book adaptations for movies are complicated at best. It is much easier to conjure images in the mind from written material, than to express that same imagination in visual form.
Most book adaptations to films that I have seen, have always left me wanting, especially after reading the book first.
Catch-22, in what is a good film, was definitely not complete from its book form.
Frank Herbert's Dune, with all of it's fantastic Imagery and length of the novel, was doomed to be a failure at the theater. How can you convey that entire book, in such a short time frame.
Lord of the Rings, even in over 3 movies, still left out parts and adapted others. They were good, but not complete.
I know from a human perspective, it is hard not to compare. In the end, we should judge the book as a book, and a movie as a movie and leave it at that. The time and artistic differences between writer and director, will probably never intersect completely. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 5,734 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Taro: Quote:
Quote:
I just watched Deadwood 1.02 and saw breasts and pubic hair of a woman, and a penis.
Lucky you! They didn't murder the child. | | | | Don't confuse while the film is playing with when the film is played. [Ken Cole, DVD Profiler Architect] |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 2,337 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,796 |
| | Posted: | | | | In the US is not only about the ratings, but the time slot. They want a one hour TV shows that fits in 43 min. and movies less than 2 hours. and half hour shows about 21 min.
It's all about the money. There aren't many directors they'll let make a three hour movie. | | | We don't need stinkin' IMDB's errors, we make our own.
Ineptocracy, You got to love it.
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,819 |
| | Posted: | | | | I've just read this entire thread ( ) and have to agree with whoever it was that said remakes don't ruin the original. Many authors have said the same thing when asked how they felt about their books being ruined by the movie adaptation. You can't ruin the source material because it's still there to view/read. Personally, I'm always open minded when it comes to remakes. The US version of Queer As Folk was much, much better than the UK version. I recently know that the US version of Being Human has started airing. When I first heard this was happening I thought it was a colossal mistake. Now, however, I am quite looking forward to seeing how it's been reinterpreted. US Seasons tend to be longer than UK series so the story should get meatier as it branches into new territory. As for films...well I'm sorry to say that I will normally stick with the version I see first. I'm not a great lover of subtitles (although I have a lot of subtitled films  ); so if I see a remake of a foreign language film I won't bother to see the original. But that goes the other way too - for example, if an English-language version was made of The House of Flying Daggers or Red Cliff I wouldn't bother to see them. But....when it comes to crappy horror I do tend to watch both versions. I recently watched the original Night of the Living Dead (having not seen it for 25 years or so) and I thought it was pretty awful...whereas I like the remake. So...in my opinion.... GOOD REMAKES Texas Chainsaw Massacre - hate the original. Amityville Horror - really like both versions. Invasion of the Body Snatchers - I currently own 4 versions of this story and like all of them (Original/1978/Body Snatchers/The Invasion). Each brings its own nuances. Dawn of the Dead - love both version Day of the Dead - love both version Sorority Row - original is very tame and boring. Piranha Thirteen Ghosts DREADFUL REMAKES Prom Night April Fools Day The Fog Nightmare On Elm Street The Omen ....just to name a few. The only thing I will say is that I never really understand why the US feels a need to remake English TV shows...what's wrong with watching the original and saving yourselves money? I watch a LOT of US shows and I have no desire to see an English version of any of them. I've heard it said the reason is because the varied English dialects are a problem...surely that can be the case?! | | | | Last edited: by Pantheon |
| | Registered: March 10, 2009 | | Posts: 2,248 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Pantheon: Quote:
I've just read this entire thread ( ) and have to agree with whoever it was that said remakes don't ruin the original.
Many authors have said the same thing when asked how they felt about their books being ruined by the movie adaptation. You can't ruin the source material because it's still there to view/read.
Personally, I'm always open minded when it comes to remakes.
The US version of Queer As Folk was much, much better than the UK version.
I recently know that the US version of Being Human has started airing. When I first heard this was happening I thought it was a colossal mistake. Now, however, I am quite looking forward to seeing how it's been reinterpreted.
US Seasons tend to be longer than UK series so the story should get meatier as it branches into new territory.
As for films...well I'm sorry to say that I will normally stick with the version I see first. I'm not a great lover of subtitles (although I have a lot of subtitled films ); so if I see a remake of a foreign language film I won't bother to see the original.
But that goes the other way too - for example, if an English-language version was made of The House of Flying Daggers or Red Cliff I wouldn't bother to see them.
But....when it comes to crappy horror I do tend to watch both versions.
I recently watched the original Night of the Living Dead (having not seen it for 25 years or so) and I thought it was pretty awful...whereas I like the remake.
So...in my opinion....
GOOD REMAKES
Texas Chainsaw Massacre - hate the original.
Amityville Horror - really like both versions.
Invasion of the Body Snatchers - I currently own 4 versions of this story and like all of them (Original/1978/Body Snatchers/The Invasion). Each brings its own nuances.
Dawn of the Dead - love both version
Day of the Dead - love both version
Sorority Row - original is very tame and boring.
Piranha
Thirteen Ghosts
DREADFUL REMAKES
Prom Night
April Fools Day
The Fog
Nightmare On Elm Street
The Omen
....just to name a few.
The only thing I will say is that I never really understand why the US feels a need to remake English TV shows...what's wrong with watching the original and saving yourselves money?
I watch a LOT of US shows and I have no desire to see an English version of any of them.
I've heard it said the reason is because the varied English dialects are a problem...surely that can be the case?! It's case and point the US is not very open to other cultures unless there Americanized enough. Same with other places like France and Japan. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting FilmAlba: Quote:
It's case and point the US is not very open to other cultures unless there Americanized enough. Same with other places like France and Japan. Which is certainly why the Japanese versions of Ju-on and other horror films are so popular, and no American remake has ever been made of the Seventh Seal or Fellini films. You know very little about Americans. Quit lumping us all into a mass you dislike.  | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff |
| | Registered: February 23, 2009 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,580 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VibroCount: Quote:
Quoting FilmAlba:
Quote:
It's case and point the US is not very open to other cultures unless there Americanized enough. Same with other places like France and Japan.
Which is certainly why the Japanese versions of Ju-on and other horror films are so popular, and no American remake has ever been made of the Seventh Seal or Fellini films.
You know very little about Americans. Quit lumping us all into a mass you dislike. I think there's a big difference between US viewers/consumers and the media companies. Some viewers will go out of their way to get original, foreign material and are happy watching it 'as is' with perhaps just subtitles added. A lot of US media companies on the other hand buy the rights for remakes with American actors and put American accents on the stories. I don't know why but those companies feel that if something isn't remade with local actors and in some way adapted to the local culture, it won't sell well enough. That last part, I find a bit a pity. They should at least first give a chance to the original foreign film to gain an audience in the US by releasing it theatrically. | | | Blu-ray collection
DVD collection
My Games
My Trophies |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | I don't think it has anything to do with giving American audiences art... it has to do with making money. Find a delicious foreign film and obtain rights for it... if you distribute the film as is (or subtitle it if needed), you pay some, gain some, and the owners make more. But if you pay for remake rights, mount a new production, then you own it, and rarely need you pay more to the first filmmakers. Your profit has a potential to be far greater.
For example, the French "Le Grand Blond avec une chaussure noire" (The Tall Blond Man with One Black Shoe) was a fine film, and the foreign/art house market gave it good profits in the USA. And it was successful enough to make a sequel. Then Stan Dragotti obtained rights and reshot the film with Tom Hanks as "The Man with One Red Shoe" and even though it is an inferior film, it made the American producer far more money than the American distributor of "The Tall Blond Man with One Black Shoe" made.
Good, bad? Makes no difference... possibility of higher profits? Major big deal. | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff |
| | Registered: March 10, 2009 | | Posts: 2,248 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VibroCount: Quote:
Quoting FilmAlba:
Quote:
It's case and point the US is not very open to other cultures unless there Americanized enough. Same with other places like France and Japan.
Which is certainly why the Japanese versions of Ju-on and other horror films are so popular, and no American remake has ever been made of the Seventh Seal or Fellini films.
You know very little about Americans. Quit lumping us all into a mass you dislike. Cause it was so popular in it's original form it warranted a US remake  How many UK remakes do you know of of US films? Exactly none. Don't cherry pick a few examples and try to make that out as something bigger than it is. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting FilmAlba: Quote:
Don't cherry pick a few examples and try to make that out as something bigger than it is. Why not? That's exactly what you do. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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