Toshiba Ready To Fight Back In The HD Format War

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Toshiba isn’t too happy about Sony claiming victory in the HD format wars. Deputy General Manager of HD DVD at Toshiba, Olivier Van Wynendaele, has stated the claims made by Blu-Ray backers are “propaganda”. Wynendaele has picked apart each claim and makes a sound argument for each point.

The Blu-Ray Disc Association stated last week that their format was outselling HD 3:1 in the US. Wynendaele argues that PS3 owners are to blame for this and it’s not because they’re purchasing discs. They’re simply redeeming vouchers for free Blu-Ray discs from Sony. He also states that Toshiba has sold 200,000 HD DVD players in the US compared to the 30,000 Blu-Ray players that have been sold. Wynendaele believes PS3 sales shouldn’t be counted in the tally because there is no guarantee that they are purchasing Blu-Ray discs for themselves or that they’re even going to watch Blu-Ray discs at all. In all fairness, neither format can claim victory because HD players don’t have enough market share, less than 1%, and Wynendaele agrees.

What about the price cuts and cheaper Blu-Ray players expected to show up by the end of the year from Sony? Toshiba seems to have an answer for this as well. They’re taking a page from Wal-Mart’s playbook and plan to undercut Sony at all costs. Maybe the war isn’t over yet.

This is what I'm talking about when I say a good deal of these people are reporting false/deceptive information (200,000 HD DVD players compared to 30,000 standalone Blu-ray players).  They are intentionally trying to TRICK people into a particular format.  Notice that he did not quote any Nielsen VideoScan standalone player sales or percentages for these High-Def formats.  The truth is the standalone player sales were near even.  And, if you are just counting "players", you must count the PS3 to be accurate (it is a movie player).

The vouchers that come with PS3 purchases are discounts...not free movies.  You must buy certain titles to get certain discounts.  If you don't buy any titles, you don't get any discounts.  Plus, Nielsen VideoScan numbers do not include giveaway discs.

Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:

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[  The truth is the standalone player sales were near even.

Wait, wait, I just couldn't pass this up.  Yet another article that claims NOBODY is winning this war.

"Who's winning the Blu-ray-HD-DVD war?

Well, according to the NPD Group, no one. The research group says sales of the two HDTV DVD players were almost even from April to December of last year."

Thanks for providing another fair and unbiased article. 

Quoting Unicus69:

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No you shouldn't and for exactly the reason that was stated in the article.  The PS3 is a game console first, movie player second.

Does it play Blu-ray movies? Yes.  Can it execute Blu-ray movie functionality at least as well as it's standalone counterparts? Yes.  Then, it is a Blu-ray player...period.

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There is no hard, tangible evidence that every PS3 is being purchased because it can play movies.  It is 100% pure speculation.

Let's put it this way, again.  Before the PS3 was launched, HD DVD disc sales had a 3:1 advantage over Blu-ray.  One month and change after the PS3 was launched, BD sales had a 2:1 advantage over HD DVD.  In short, that "100% pure specualtion" is kicking HD DVD's butt.  Just because you want to ignore it doesn't make it go away.  The PS3 counts in everyway that matters...THE BOTTOM LINE.  The Nielsen VideoScan numbers prove that.

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"In all fairness, neither format can claim victory because HD players don’t have enough market share, less than 1%,"

He is making a direct comparison with SD DVD when it should be between the two HD formats.  One would generally have to beat the other to move on to something much bigger...like SD DVD.  So, one could have victory over  the other HD format with one percent of the DVD market or less.  But, is the format war over, yet?  No, but the safer money is on Blu-ray.

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Fair, unbiased reporting...who would have thought?

Generally, people that like to ignore pesky things like facts would have thought it.

Quoting JP_S:

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Are you actually calling the U.K. market a small market? I think that it is besides France and Germany the biggest in Europe.

Not in THAT way.  My context was pertaining to the amount of HD discs sold so far.  That's all.

Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:

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Quoting Unicus69:

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Wait, wait, I just couldn't pass this up.  Yet another article that claims NOBODY is winning this war.

And here I thought the the first line had "near even" in it.  Oh well.

It did but I guess I have a different definition of "near even" than you do.  To me, "near even" means no clear winner.  What does it mean to you? 

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"Who's winning the Blu-ray-HD-DVD war?

Well, according to the NPD Group, no one. The research group says sales of the two HDTV DVD players were almost even from April to December of last year."

I guess you didn't bother to look at the date.  It clearly said Feb. 5.  You know...when only January numbers were available.

I guess it's back to the drawing boards for you then.

What are you talking about?  You have been making claims of a clear winner for months.  So what does the date of the article have to do with anything?  Oh wait, are you claiming that a clear winner has emerged in the last month and a half? 

Quoting Unicus69:

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Continueing to say it is doesn't make it so.  My Xbox playes DVDs, but it isn't a DVD player...it is a game system.  Thanks for playing. 

The Xbox is a DVD player.  It's also a CD player and a game system.  A system that has equal talents can be referred to as whatever the owner's primary use for it is.  Let me give you an example.  I own a PS3.  My primary function (one of the main reasons I bought it this early) is as a Blu-ray player.  Therefore, It is a Blu-ray player first and game system second...for me (138 titles and 12 games).  If someone's primary reason to buy the PS3 was for gaming (and movies later), then it is a gaming console first and a Blu-ray player second.

Really, it doesn't matter whether you want to list Blu-ray movie functionality first or second.  The point is the PS3 does it...well!  And, there is no rational way you can say the PS3 is not having a positive effect on BD sales, even though the exact numbers aren't known.  To say so is to admit you have your head buried in the sand on that one.

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No, the only thing VideoScan numbers prove is that more Blu-ray titles were sold than HD DVD.  There are many factors that go into that...number of titles released is the biggest.  Linking PS3 sales to that ratio is PURE SPECULATION.  Again, thanks for playing. 

See last two sentences in my statement above.

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Really?  Wow here I thought he was making a direct comparison to VW sales.

Funny, his comparison was about as relevant as your VW sales comment. 

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So people who ignore the facts expect fair and unbiased reporting?

You seem to follow that same pattern.  I'm not saying you definitely follow that pattern, but it SEEMS that way.

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I would have thought it was the other way around. 

Yeah...me too.

Quoting Calidain:

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At this point, especially when it comes to casual movie/dvd collectors, I will say the big winner in this format war will be the company that can deliver the best (most sought after) movie titles...ie LOTR Trilogy, The Matrix Trilogy, The Star Wars SAGA, etc...

I agree.  I don't think many people dispute this. 

All of the titles you mentioned will be available on both formats except Star Wars.  Even though Lucas owns Star Wars, Fox has a great relationship with him and has done his distribution for quite some time now.  But, don't look for Star Wars until at least next year this time.  Lucas waits a longggg time before releasing his movies on a format.

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These big name films will be what the public will be demanding and if they become split between the 2 format groups than I believe the dual format players will become extremely popular, because the general public will not like the idea that they can't purchase what they want because it is only available in the opposing format.

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Honestly there are titles on both sides that I would want to own and unless I can get them all (ie. with a dual-format player) I will just continue to grow my DVD collection.  It appears to me that this format war is still in early skirmish stage and is seriously very far from over!!!

I think this could be true if HD DVD can pull out a miracle and keep themselves afloat that long.  There is already pressure on Universal to go neutral.  Stockholder are not happy with their exclusive stance with the HD war, because they are not selling anywhere near what the BD camp is selling on a monthly basis.  That could over double their HD profits just by going neutral.

As we all know, the HD DVD camp only has one major exclusive studio.  It's a lot easier to put pressure on the only exclusive studio when their sales numbers are far below the other team's sales.  I forget when the HD DVD exclusive contract is over.  I think it's this year sometime (maybe around December, I think).  IMO, around December this year will be the end of Universal's exclusive HD DVD support and HD DVD (accept for the people that already have a HD DVD player).  Maybe even announced at CES 2008.  After that time period, Blu-ray will be the only HD format with 100% major studio support.  There will be no real way to rationally justify buying a HD DVD player after that.

When Universal goes neutral, there will be no need to seek out a combo HD players.  Every major studio would be on Blu-ray.  If you don't feel Blu-ray is the safe choice at that time, you never will.

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The only loser I can see in this war at this point will be the consumers who can't truly get what they want, a Hi-Def DVD format that is affordable and will deliver all the titles they want for their collection!!!

I hear you, but I'm not suffering much at all.  By choosing Blu-ray, I have access to all the available HD  titles but 1 major studio (Universal).  That's just a little suffering compared to extreme suffering of choosing HD DVD.  Choosing HD DVD means you don't have access to about 60% of the HD content from major studios.  Some people may say they aren't missing much, but 60% is always a lot to miss.  There is no way around it except to try to import, but that's defeats the purpose.  People want descently priced HD movies.  If you import to get a few Blu-ray titles on HD DVD, your costs just sky-rocketed.  That knocks the cost-effective argument out of the window, doesn't it?

Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:

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Quoting Unicus69:

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"Who's winning the Blu-ray-HD-DVD war?

Well, according to the NPD Group, no one."

What are you talking about?  You have been making claims of a clear winner for months.  So what does the date of the article have to do with anything?  Oh wait, are you claiming that a clear winner has emerged in the last month and a half? 

Look at that first question.  Where does it say a "clear winner" (suggesting the format war is over...one does not select a 'winner' until something is over)?  It says, "Who's winning the Blu-ray - HD-DVD war?"  Since you used the word "clear", Blu-ray is clear-ly winning.  All numbers that mean anything supports that.  If you would like to through all the numbers out, how could one judge anything, right?  That just wouldn't be rational, now, would it?

Quit trying to confuse things.  My original post was, "Thanks for providing another fair and unbiased article."  That was in reference to your link to an article that said no one is winning the war.  You then made some idiotic statement about the date of the article...as if it had anything to do with anything.

I then said that YOU have been making claims of a clear winner for months.  Note I said YOU, not the article.  The article says there is no winner, clear or otherwise, which flies in the face of everything you have been saying for the past...oh...six months?

Bottom line, you have been making claims of a winner when every unbiased source has said the exact opposite.  I will continue to point this out until such a time as a clear winner is chosen.