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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Supervising Producer |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Our best answer to END all of this once and for all, is to be able to enter the Crew data exactly as it appears On screen. This would NOT have to be totally open credits but that would be a way to do it.
@ James: tim and hal didn't do the poll so its not relevant. yes I am being sarcastic, expecting them to STOP bringing up the same BS every few months. Yes I know neither of them was the OP.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I am becoming increasingly convinced that due the vagaries of Hollywood that Open credits in some form is the BEST way to go. Whether that is in some limited form or unlimited, iits the ONLY answer to stop the combat and the endless argument though there are some users whose opinion holds no value due to their repeated slalnderous remarks. Even directors CAN be problematic, let alon other categories. The thing that i find hysterical some of the people that want to expand our credit capabilities are the same people that refuse to deal with what we do have, thus encouraging Ken to expand...NOT.
But this endless bickering and back-biting has got to STOP!
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,668 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I am becoming increasingly convinced that due the vagaries of Hollywood that Open credits in some form is the BEST way to go. I shudder to think that may ever happen. We have enough problems as it is, and if people start entering literally EVERY imaginable crew credit, from gaffers and best boys to, say, a group of carpenters, then there's no way the voters can actually decide whether the data up for voting is in any way accurate. Don't even think about common names and birth years (if potentially EVERY credit can be entered, I can assure you we're going to need thousands and thousands more birth years, primarily for people for which they're not available). I guess I'd lock all my crew data and never accept an update to it ever again. I understand how it would solve a lot of problems, but I'm afraid it would introduce lots more. It just doesn't seem workable. No, what I think we need is a thorough rewrite of the crew rules, and maybe some changes to the available credits in the program itself as well. Nolesrule hits the nail right on the head: Quoting nolesrule: Quote:
I still think we (and by "we" I mean the DVD Profiler program) need to be using the guilds, who have developed the modern credit system for each profession, as the basis for credits in DVDP, determine which ones are relevant enough to be included and which ones should be excluded, and only have exceptions for movies that don't fit into the guild criteria (even for films that aren't within the guilds mostly use proper guild credit roles anyway, so those roles would already be included). It is the simplest way to make it work without argument.
Instead, it seems that which credits that are included in the program have been cherry-picked, leaving out some that are actually more important in the real-world credits hierarchy, and that's why we have these problems. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
I am becoming increasingly convinced that due the vagaries of Hollywood that Open credits in some form is the BEST way to go.
I shudder to think that may ever happen. We have enough problems as it is, and if people start entering literally EVERY imaginable crew credit, from gaffers and best boys to, say, a group of carpenters, then there's no way the voters can actually decide whether the data up for voting is in any way accurate. Don't even think about common names and birth years (if potentially EVERY credit can be entered, I can assure you we're going to need thousands and thousands more birth years, primarily for people for which they're not available). I guess I'd lock all my crew data and never accept an update to it ever again. I understand how it would solve a lot of problems, but I'm afraid it would introduce lots more. It just doesn't seem workable. No, what I think we need is a thorough rewrite of the crew rules, and maybe some changes to the available credits in the program itself as well. Nolesrule hits the nail right on the head: For my local, I would like to see open customizable crew with only they key roles (yes, including revisions to the chart) as contributable, like we have now. That way I could record whatever I want but still benefit from the work of others. | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
I am becoming increasingly convinced that due the vagaries of Hollywood that Open credits in some form is the BEST way to go.
I shudder to think that may ever happen. We have enough problems as it is, and if people start entering literally EVERY imaginable crew credit, from gaffers and best boys to, say, a group of carpenters, then there's no way the voters can actually decide whether the data up for voting is in any way accurate. Don't even think about common names and birth years (if potentially EVERY credit can be entered, I can assure you we're going to need thousands and thousands more birth years, primarily for people for which they're not available). I guess I'd lock all my crew data and never accept an update to it ever again. I understand how it would solve a lot of problems, but I'm afraid it would introduce lots more. It just doesn't seem workable. No, what I think we need is a thorough rewrite of the crew rules, and maybe some changes to the available credits in the program itself as well. Nolesrule hits the nail right on the head:
Quoting nolesrule:
Quote:
I still think we (and by "we" I mean the DVD Profiler program) need to be using the guilds, who have developed the modern credit system for each profession, as the basis for credits in DVDP, determine which ones are relevant enough to be included and which ones should be excluded, and only have exceptions for movies that don't fit into the guild criteria (even for films that aren't within the guilds mostly use proper guild credit roles anyway, so those roles would already be included). It is the simplest way to make it work without argument.
Instead, it seems that which credits that are included in the program have been cherry-picked, leaving out some that are actually more important in the real-world credits hierarchy, and that's why we have these problems. Tim: I am sorry, It is the only to stop people like you from imposing your will on the database and dragging in data that was not intended at this time. And to prevent you from trying to apply definitions that we have not used, I don't care what the PGA says. This system will not stop you from bringing up the SAME discussions over and over and over again. You don't even pay attention to polls that have been taken such as the one on SP. So the ONLY answer is some form of Open credits, either in limited form or unlimited. You enjoy these arguments, tim? I DON't and i want to stop them that is why i developed the rules to begin with, in hopes of stopping not only the garbage data and endless ping-ponging but the arguments. This a hobby I used to enjoy, but becoming less so by the day, due to the behavior of many users ar, I have already ceased Contributing, do you really believe that is beneficial to the community, the people that might say yes are people who don't Contribute very much anyway and you know who you are. Whatever needs to be done to end this garbage is what Ken needs to do, and Limited Open Credits is the Answer I want the BS to STOP. ENOUGH ALREADY. | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,414 |
| | Posted: | | | | As I posted in the poll thread, the PGA rules on this credit allow you to get it if you're a director and not a producer. I think that eliminates it from being credited because we have no way of knowing whether it's actually a producer or if it's a director getting a supervising producer credit. | | | | "This movie has warped my fragile little mind." |
| | Registered: April 14, 2007 | | Posts: 433 |
| | Posted: | | | | The rules do not spell out the exception for Supervising in the Produced by section of the credits like they do in other areas so I don't include them in my contributions.
The Producers Guild of America give the roles and what the duties are of each producing credit for a Television Series
Credit Guidelines for TELEVISION SERIES
EXECUTIVE PRODUCER (sanctioned by PGA)
1. The credit of Executive Producer is to be granted to the individual whose only reporting responsibility is to the entities financing and distributing the series.
2. Subject to the control of the Owner (see Rules of Arbitration, section I.B), the Executive Producer has final responsibility for the creative and business aspects of the production of the series, with direct participation in making decisions concerning a majority of the producing functions (see Section 3 for comprehensive list).
CO-EXECUTIVE PRODUCER
1. The Co-Executive Producer reports directly and immediately to the Executive Producer, from whom the Co-Executive Producer assumes direct supervisory responsibilities for above and below the line operations.
2. The credit of Co-Executive Producer is granted solely at the discretion of the Executive Producer (previous producing credits are not required).
3. The credit of Co-Executive Producer shall apply only to primary creative contributors to the series that qualify under one of three categories:
1. If performing services as a writer on the series, the contributor also must perform, in a decision-making capacity, a preponderance of the producing functions listed in PCOC Section 3; OR
2. If performing services as a director on the series, the contributor also must perform, in a decision-making capacity, a preponderance of the producing functions listed in PCOC Section 3; OR
3. If performing "Produced By" services on the series, and so long as no other person receives the "Produced By" credit on the series, the contributor must perform, in a decision-making capacity, a majority of the producing functions described in PCOC Section 3.
SUPERVISING PRODUCER
1. The Supervising Producer reports directly to the Exec. Producer and/or Co-Exec. Producer.
2. The credit of Supervising Producer is granted solely at the discretion of the Exec. Producer.
3. The credit of Supervising Producer shall apply only to primary creative contributors to the series that perform, in a decision-making capacity, a substantial number of producing functions.
4. The credit of Supervising Producer only shall apply to primary creative contributors to the series that qualify under one of three categories:
1. Having received the credit of Writer-Producer for no less than two full seasons of this or other series episodes that have been nationally telecast; OR
2. Having received the credit of Producer or "Produced By" for no less than two full seasons of this or other series episodes that have been nationally telecast; OR
3. As a director who has responsibility for supervising all episodic directors on the series.
PRODUCED BY or LINE PRODUCER
1. The individual receiving the Produced By credit reports directly and immediately to the Executive Producer.
2. There never shall be more than one Produced By credit on any episode of a series.
3. The individual receiving the Produced By credit has the primary responsibility for the logistics of the production of the series, from pre-production through delivery of each episode; all Department Heads report directly to the Produced By.
4. If the individual who performs the Produced By functions is granted the title of Co-Executive Producer, there shall be no Produced By credit afforded on the series.
PRODUCER/CO-PRODUCER
1. The Producer/Co-Producer reports directly to the Supervising Producer.
2. The credit of Producer/Co-Producer is granted solely at the discretion of the Exec. Producer.
3. The credit of Producer/Co-Producer shall apply only to primary creative contributors to the series that perform, in a decision-making capacity, a substantial number of producing functions. | | | | Chris |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Please take note that tim is trying to apply Rules specifically for Television to EVERYTHING including film, and take further note that contrary to Tim's claim the SP is NOT the HEAD Producer. Thanks came, you beat me to it.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 775 |
| | Posted: | | | | Skip, can't you ever just attack the argument instead of the person? This is heated enough without inflaming things directly. | | | | Last edited: by Nadja |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting cmaeditor: Quote:
The Producers Guild of America give the roles and what the duties are of each producing credit for a Television Series Yeah so? This thread was started because of a movie named Short Circuit which was not a television serie.  | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I have attacked the argument, nadja. If a user is going to repersent data it falls to him to portary it accurately.which sadly, Tim did not do. Now talk about attacking a person.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: April 14, 2007 | | Posts: 433 |
| | Posted: | | | | There is no Supervising Producer role for Films according to the Producers Guild at all. It appears to only apply to Television.
Credit Guidelines for THEATRICAL MOTION PICTURES
PRODUCED BY (sanctioned by PGA)
1. The Produced By credit shall be in the primary credit position among all PGA-sanctioned credits for theatrical motion pictures.
2. Subject to the control of the Owner (see Rules of Arbitration, section 1.B), The individual receiving Produced By credit shall have final responsibility for all business and creative aspects of the production of the motion picture, with direct participation in making decisions concerning a majority of the producing functions (see PCOC Section 1 for comprehensive list).
CO-PRODUCER/LINE PRODUCER
1. The credit of Co-Producer / Line Producer is to be granted to the individual who reports directly to the individual(s) receiving "Produced By" credit on the theatrical motion picture.
2. The Co-Producer / Line Producer is the single individual who has the primary responsibility for the logistics of the production, from pre-production through completion of production; all Department Heads report to the Co-Producer / Line Producer.
EXECUTIVE PRODUCER
1. The credit of Executive Producer shall only apply to an individual who has made a significant contribution to the motion picture and who additionally qualifies under one of two categories:
a. Having secured an essential and proportionally significant part (no less than 25%) of the financing for the motion picture; and/or
b. Having made a significant contribution to the development of the literary property, typically including the securement of the underlying rights to the material on which the motion picture is based.
ASSOCIATE PRODUCER
1. The Associate Producer credit is granted solely on the decision of the individual receiving the Produced By credit, and is to be granted sparingly and only for those individuals who are delegated significant production or post production functions.
2. The Associate Producer is responsible for performing one or more producing functions delegated to him/her by the individual receiving the Produced By credit and the Co-Producer. This does not include persons whose primary function is as an assistant.
PRODUCTION
PRODUCTION SUPERVISOR/MANAGER
1. The Production Supervisor/Manager reports directly and immediately to the person performing the Co-Producer/Line Producer or UPM functions.
2. The Production Supervisor/Manager has the primary responsibility for the logistics of the production of the motion picture, from pre-production through the completion of production.
PRODUCTION COORDINATOR:
1. The Production Coordinator reports to the person(s) receiving the Produced By credit, the Co-Producer/Line Producer the Production Supervisor/Manager or UPM.
2. The Coordinator interacts with various studio and production departments concerning any and all logistics of production and is responsible for facilitating production requirements including, but not limited to, equipment contracts, purchase orders, film inventory, insurance, day player contracts, crew deal memos, travel and shipping, call sheets, production reports, cast and crew lists, and compliance with various union report requirements.
POST PRODUCTION
POST PRODUCTION SUPERVISOR
1. The Post Production Supervisor reports directly to the Co-Producer/Line Producer.
2. The Post Production Supervisor is responsible for the coordination and oversight of the entire post production process, but not primarily as a production company executive.
POST PRODUCTION COORDINATOR
1. The Post Production Coordinator reports directly to the Post Production Supervisor.
2. The Coordinator is responsible for facilitating post production functions as assigned by the Post Supervisor, which can involve interaction with various studio and post production departments concerning any and all aspects of the logistics of post production, such as working with the vendors, helping prepare day player contracts and crew deal memos, scheduling ADR, making travel arrangements, distributing paperwork, maintaining crew lists, etc. | | | | Chris | | | | Last edited: by cmaeditor |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Daddy DVD: Quote:
Quoting cmaeditor:
Quote:
The Producers Guild of America give the roles and what the duties are of each producing credit for a Television Series
Yeah so? This thread was started because of a movie named Short Circuit which was not a television serie. Martin: So why are you supporting this. I have stated that from people that I know in FILM, SP is no higher than third on the org chart. He answers to the the Producers, who answers to the EP, and in some films the SP answers to the Asst. Ps which we do not include. In short a the information regarding SP to support its useage in film has been grossly misrepresented. Yet you want two buy it Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 775 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I have attacked the argument, nadja. If a user is going to repersent data it falls to him to portary it accurately.which sadly, Tim did not do. Now talk about attacking a person. That's not what I'm talking about. You can very ably make the points you're trying to without resorting to direct attacks on the person with whom you disagree. It doesn't have to end every single time with a variation on the them of "<insert name here> is trying to corrupt the database because they won't agree with me." Everyone here wants the database to be the best it can be, and right or wrong on the issue, resorting to direct personal affronts helps nothing. | | | | Last edited: by Nadja |
|  | Berak | | Bibamus morieundum est! |
| Registered: May 10, 2007 |  Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting Berak:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
And why do we shoehorn "Theme By" into Composer, or "Created By" into OCB or "Story By" into OMB?
You either enter only what is listed in the table or you have opened Pandora's Box. There's no way to open it half way.
You guys really need to stop with this 'we' stuff. WE do not shoehorn "Theme By" into Composer. WE do not shoehorn "Created By" into OCB. Some people do, that is clear, but that doesn't make it right.
Entering "Story By" into OMB, on the other hand, is not shoehorning. The notes for OMB say, "Adapted from another medium." If there is a screenwriter credit, in addition to the story by credit, it meets the criteria for OMB.
If you voted on contributions regularly, you would see these all the time. Those are the "we" that I am referring to.
What is even more discouraging is that they are being approved by the screeners as well.
Are they being approved by screeners?! All the time?
Could this be an indication that you are wrong?! 
No, it is an indication that the screeners do not have time to check every contribution to make sure that people are not contributing erroneous information. This might have been be the case - IF only a few of your so-called wrong contributions got approved. But - It seems to me that the majority of contributions utilizing this (in your mind) wrong interpretation gets approved?!? Am I wrong? You can't seriously debate that when screeners approve what's in your mind wrong contributions, they are simply "slipping up". While in the same breath advocate that when they approve what is to others a wrong contribution (but in your mind right), they do the right thing? Or can you?!  Seriously - get off your high horse, and try some diplomacy, rather than the divide-and-conquer tactic you're currently pursuing.... | | | Berak
It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all! |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting cmaeditor: Quote:
There is no Supervising Producer role for Films according to the Producers Guild at all. It appears to only apply to Television. The role is used for a movie, so I still do not understand why that guild mambo-jumbo would explain us why we could not use it in that case. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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