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Invelos Forums->Posts by TheMadMartian Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
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Quoting GSyren:
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
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The rules make a distinction between 'shorts' and 'episodes', not once, but twice.

I only see two mentions of shorts in the rules, and in both cases they tell us to treat them the same as episodes. So can you please elaborate on how they should be treated differently?

I posted both rules that mention shorts and I don't see anything in those rules saying to treat them the same as episodes.  They are listed with episodes, but that's not the same thing.  I have also read the TV Series rules and I can't find a single place where it says that they also apply to shorts.

That being said, I have already explained how they should be treated differently...it was the second to last sentence in my previous post.
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Topic Replies: 9, Topic Views: 1081
Quoting T!M:
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So first you want to treat them as episodes, and at the same time, you don't want to treat them as episodes? Let's just be consistent.

I don't want to treat them as episodes, I want to treat them as shorts.
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And then you say you want to apply "the standard rules" - so what do you think those are, then? Wait, I'll show you:

Actually, let me show you.  The rules mention shorts in exactly two sections:

First, in the Overview section: If the Main Feature of the disc is a collection of some kind (e.g. shorts, TV episodes, multiple films, etc.) rather than one single feature, a simple list of the collection contents may be added to the standard overview. Example:
1. Title
2. Title
3. Title

And second, in the Alternate Versions section: Alternate versions are not used for contributing profiles for shorts or episode-level profiles for TV series.

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So if you want to use the standard rules, these are the two standard rules to choose from. The third standard rule you're apparently thinking of, really doesn't exist. If you think it does, please point out where it is.

See above.
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No, either we consider these individual films, or we consider this a collection of episodes, and for either scenario, there is indeed a standard rule on how to deal with that. There's is no third standard rule for a collection of shorts, no special exception. It's either one or the other.

Sorry, but it isn't one or the other as there is a third, and correct, option available...consider it a collection of shorts.  The rules make a distinction between 'shorts' and 'episodes', not once, but twice.  Since they do, we should as well.

Based on those two rules, again, the only rules that mention shorts, we create a single profile for the disc containing the collection of shorts and list each title in the overview.

Now, if you want to treat them as TV episodes, feel free but let's not pretend it's what the rules tell us to do, because it isn't.
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Topic Replies: 9, Topic Views: 1081
Quoting mreeder50:
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Yes, some of us do, per the rules.

I have done it because that is how the rules are written.
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Topic Replies: 10, Topic Views: 1239
Quoting T!M:
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Yes, I'd also list them as episodes. And since we qualify them as episodes, the disc-level profiles are optional, and therefore the cast/crew for *all* shorts/episodes also should be listed in the parent profile.

I am going to disagree on this.  These are theatrical shorts, not TV episodes.  Since they are not TV episodes, the TV Series rules do not apply and the standard rules should be used.
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Topic Replies: 9, Topic Views: 1081
CubbyUps is correct.  'Shorts' refers to theatrical shorts.
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Topic Replies: 9, Topic Views: 1081
Quoting CubbyUps:
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Disc ID method seems like the only method.

Now if these are feature length films than alt. version methods can be used for each film contained on each disc. If these are shorts than just one disc id and profile each short film as if they are tv episodes.

Beat me to it.  This does seem to be the only option.
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Topic Replies: 3, Topic Views: 592
Quoting GSyren:
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Well, there is no mention of any version on the front cover, so I don't see how that would indicate which version that is the main feature. Both versions have the same title in the opening credits.

The original version is listed first in the main menu. I might accept that as indication that it is the main feature. But the rules only mention running time, so if the musical version had been longer I would have been ambivalent.

The rules only mention running time when referring to "branching titles, or those with multiple versions (e.g. Theatrical and Director's Cut) on the same disc.  Since you said these aren't different cuts, for me, that rule does not apply.

The rules say that a Bonus Feature Film is any feature film that is included as part of the bonus material for a single release.  Nothing is said about run time.

If you go by run time, then it is an alternate version and it is listed in the other features section.  If it is a Bonus Feature Film, it gets its own profile.

I'm not asking you to accept anything as I honestly don't care how you choose to profile it.
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Topic Replies: 11, Topic Views: 1347
Just to make sure we are on the same page I am talking about:
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Bonus Feature Films The term "Bonus Feature Film" is used to define any feature film that is included as part of the bonus material for a single release.

Based on your description, and what I was able to find online, this appears to fit that description.  There is no mention of the musical version on the front cover so, for me, the nonmusical version is the main feature.  Whenever possible, I prefer to profile 'as packaged and sold'.

Cubby's suggestion is equally valid, this is just what I would do.
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Topic Replies: 11, Topic Views: 1347
I would enter it as a Bonus Feature Film.
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Topic Replies: 11, Topic Views: 1347
Quoting hifrmny:
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Have you stopped taking member contributions for movies that are not in the online database?

If these truly are movies that are not in the online database, nobody can vote on them.  Updates are the only profiles that will receive yes or no votes.  New contributions are only seen by invelos.
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Topic Replies: 14, Topic Views: 2091
Quoting CubbyUps:
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I may be one of the rare ones, but I have never watched anything on Hulu or Netflix. Nor have I ever redeemed a Digital Copy. Nor have I ever uploaded anything up to a Cloud.

The only mobile device I have is my smartphone and I certainly am not going to watch a movie on a tiny screen. Besides I am not sure it even has enough memory built in to handle that.

I used be this way until I started traveling for work and my daughter started going to school in another state.

I now redeem every digital copy and, a few days before the trip, I download some movies to my Surface Pro.  That gives me something to watch in the airport, on the plane, and with the addition of an HDMI cable, something to watch in the hotel room when I have down time.

It's not the same as watching at home, but it sure helps make the trips more enjoyable.
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Topic Replies: 18, Topic Views: 3849
Quoting GreyHulk:
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Neither. It's most common use is for episodic television where you can 'play all' episodes from the main menu.

Most definitely this.
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Topic Replies: 4, Topic Views: 828
Count me in with T!M, Danae and Pete...no original title.
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Topic Replies: 11, Topic Views: 1846
Yep, The Movieman has it right.
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Topic Replies: 4, Topic Views: 925
Like Pete, I too, have owned and played Scene It games...still own a few if I am not mistaken.  I have never considered them to be anything other than a game and, not once, did I ever think they belonged in Profiler.

I would agree, that these are similar to interactive games found on some DVDs, but we don't create profiles for those.
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Topic Replies: 19, Topic Views: 3923
I'm going to agree with Pete and T!M.  These are games on video so...video games.
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Topic Replies: 19, Topic Views: 3923
Why wouldn't we enter it exactly as credited? 
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Topic Replies: 4, Topic Views: 1030
I honestly thought we had covered this before. 

From the WGA website:
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The term “Written by” is used when the writer(s) is entitled to both the “Story by” credit and the “Teleplay by” credit.

This credit shall not be granted where there is source material of a story nature.

Since there is a OMB credit, obviously, there was source material of a story nature.  According to the crew chart, the Profiler credit of writer refers to a credit of 'Written by'.  This writer does not qualify for that credit, which is why that credit isn't on the screen, so this absolutely cannot be entered as writer...but that's just my opinion.
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Topic Replies: 2, Topic Views: 705
I would agree that it is counter intuitive.  The edition should be for the parent only.
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Topic Replies: 4, Topic Views: 1153
Quoting T!M:
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
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The rules don't specifically say you 'can' enter them, but they also don't specifically say you 'can't' enter them.

Of course, you can analyze everything to death this way. You're actually arguing that the rules allow "co-writers", "assistant producers", "associate art directors", make-up interns & assistants and loads more, simply because the rules don't explicitly forbid each and every one of them. That's quite a sad approach to the rules, and one that effectively shuts up every serious question.

Let me be very clear here because you're still not getting it, I am NOT arguing that the rules allow anything, I am simply saying that they can be read that way...which, clearly they can otherwise the poll would be 22-0, instead of 17-5 and there wouldn't be entries in the database that you want to remove.
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I really don't believe that "everything that isn't explicitly forbidden is valid" is what we want, so I'll go with the poll results.

I never said that I believed that either, but it really doesn't matter what I believe as I am not the 'enforcer of the rules'.  None of us are and until the rule is changed, no poll or opinion is going to prevent those that believe they are valid credits from entering them.
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Topic Replies: 13, Topic Views: 2223
Quoting T!M:
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
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This is about what the rules say we can and can't do, and the rules say we treat them differently.

Not explicitly. You look at one column from the crew credits table, and from that, you're drawing an (incorrect) conclusion. You're forgetting that while the "Incorrect Roles" column with a few examples is nice, it doesn't doesn't take away from the fact that "Co-Anything, Assistants, Associates, Interns" are never included in the "Role" or "Credited As" colums.

I am not forgetting anything and my conclusion being incorrect is simply your opinion, which is no more or less valid than mine.

I will say this again, because you clearly ignored it the first time I said it...Maybe we should treat them the same, but this isn't about what we should or shouldn't do...that's what the rules forum is for.  This is about what the rules say we can and can't do, and the rules say we treat them differently.

Now, let me clarify that statement.  As in many areas, this particular section of the rules isn't cut and dry.  The rules don't specifically say you 'can' enter them, but they also don't specifically say you 'can't' enter them.  Until Ken weighs in, or the chart is updated, both interpretations are equally valid regardless of what the poll results are.

As far as " never included in the "Role" or "Credited As" colums", there are quite a few roles that are never included in the Role or Credited As columns that are always entered.  Visual Effects, Make-up Effects & Creature Designer are three areas that immediately come to mind.
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Topic Replies: 13, Topic Views: 2223
The rules don't allow for creating a UPC that isn't on the case so it has to be discID.
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Topic Replies: 7, Topic Views: 1545
Maybe we should treat them the same, but this isn't about what we should or shouldn't do...that's what the rules forum is for.  This is about what the rules say we can and can't do, and the rules say we treat them differently.
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Topic Replies: 13, Topic Views: 2223
That's how I read the rule.
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Topic Replies: 8, Topic Views: 1872
Yea, you're right...my bad.
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Topic Replies: 8, Topic Views: 1872
Invelos Forums->Posts by TheMadMartian Page: 1 2  Previous   Next