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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Use of "Credited As" |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
When I considered options for resolving name linking issues due to variations in how cast and crew are credited, there were two main candidates - the credited as system in use today, and a linking system. Linking works well with name variations but doesn't work well with one-off credits, and complicates the birth year solution to credit uniqueness. On the other hand, the credited as solution requires consistency in the common name to work well.
There seems to be much duress over determining the "correct" common name for each cast/crew member, when in fact what is needed is merely consistency. I've prepared an online lookup that will allow searching the global cast and crew databases to determine the more common credited as name. Note that whether or not credited as field is currently used as intended, the lookup will remain valid as long as the cast/crew entries follow the credited as standard. Importantly, changing the common name for particular DVDs to align with the most common credited as field will have no effect on the lookup.
Before I roll out the lookup functionality, I want to make sure that this solution is workable to the community. Pick it apart, tear into it, I'm thick skinned.  As I said, way back when, I think this is a good solution. We create our own personal standard, based on how a person is credited most, and nobody should be able to argue with that. Yes, the common name could change over time and yes, this is 100% dependant on people entering the cast 'as credited' in the 'credited as' field. Still, I think it is workable. I do disagree with one thing. Rather than have people lick apart the 'idea', I would suggest that you give a few users the ability to beta test the feature. It is hard to make an educated opinion without actually trying out the system. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting tlevel: Quote:
Will the lookup also tell us what is the most common first/middle/last? The look up checks the 'credited as' field. That field is a single entry and is not broken up by first/middle/last names. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting tlevel:
Quote:
Will the lookup also tell us what is the most common first/middle/last?
The look up checks the 'credited as' field. That field is a single entry and is not broken up by first/middle/last names. Correct. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 1,022 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Rather than have people lick apart the 'idea', I would suggest that you give a few users the ability to beta test the feature. It is hard to make an educated opinion without actually trying out the system. Thats a good idea Unicus, a dozen or so experienced users testing it as a beta first - Ken? | | |  |
| | Registered: April 4, 2007 |  Posts: 877 |
| | Posted: | | | | Sounds good to me Ken, but we'd still need some guidelines on determining a common name. Just using the most common one in the online database might not always be the best solution. What I'm thinking of are the names like Edward G. Robinson. Ok, bad example as he is almost always credited like that, but still.
What if 40% of his credits were with G. and 60% without. IMHO his common name should still be with the G.
1) it is correct for a vast number of his movies
2) is is more complete
3) it helps to separate him from a possible other Edward Robinson
So, IMHO, if the usage of the name with the middle initial is close to the use of the name without it, I'd like to be allowed to go for the one with middle initial as common name. | | | | - Jan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 404 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting tlevel:
Quote:
Will the lookup also tell us what is the most common first/middle/last?
The look up checks the 'credited as' field. That field is a single entry and is not broken up by first/middle/last names.
Correct. Ok, fair enough, but aren't we going to have problems with different people wanting to parse names differently? Helen Bonham Carter ring any bells? Edit: Clarifying: Helen/Bonham/Carter does not equal Helen//Bonham Carter locally. (Which is where the linking occurs). | | | The Other DVD Forum
Why do people who know the least know it the loudest? | | | | Last edited: by Cool_doodad |
| | Registered: March 10, 2007 | | Posts: 4,282 |
| | Posted: | | | | Name parsing is an issue whether we use credited as or another solution. | | | | Invelos Software, Inc. Representative |
|   | Kevin | | Registered March 22, 2001 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 609 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ken, until this is implemented, is it wrong to vote no on contributions because of not using the "as credited" feature?
I"m not trying to whine, but my contribution for Rock Star last week was declined for I can only believe was the two "No" votes that cried because I took away their IMDB information and did the credits per the actual DVD credits. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,242 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
Name parsing is an issue whether we use credited as or another solution. Which would suggest getting the correct names for 'common name' first. But then the HBC thread at IVS proved that even then some people could not or would not except the answer. Steve |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ken Cole: Quote:
When I considered options for resolving name linking issues due to variations in how cast and crew are credited, there were two main candidates - the credited as system in use today, and a linking system. Linking works well with name variations but doesn't work well with one-off credits, and complicates the birth year solution to credit uniqueness. On the other hand, the credited as solution requires consistency in the common name to work well.
There seems to be much duress over determining the "correct" common name for each cast/crew member, when in fact what is needed is merely consistency. I've prepared an online lookup that will allow searching the global cast and crew databases to determine the more common credited as name. Note that whether or not credited as field is currently used as intended, the lookup will remain valid as long as the cast/crew entries follow the credited as standard. Importantly, changing the common name for particular DVDs to align with the most common credited as field will have no effect on the lookup.
Before I roll out the lookup functionality, I want to make sure that this solution is workable to the community. Pick it apart, tear into it, I'm thick skinned. Thank you for continuing forth with the 'credited as' system as I have put goodguy's Name Variant plugin to much use already.   Two things: One is that it sounds like the lookup results will be affected when a particular credit is multiplied by the number of regions, localities, UPC variations, and particularly disc level profiling of TV series? If so, a one-off credit could become a disproportionate factor in the determination? As you say, consistency is the primary need, so I guess it doesn't matter what the common name is. But with this system, we would need to dispense with the notion that our common name concept is really a common name. It's really a most-frequently-in-the-DVDP-database name and may not be the person's real name, or accurate name or anything "provable" by peerage records.  So we would just need to change the language of the rules to reflect that the name to use is the most-frequently-in-the-DVDP-database name and get rid of the 'common name' concept. Secondly, and more importantly, is what to do when the most-frequently-in-the-DVDP-database name changes over time as the database grows? Is there a way to fix this name so that we don't have to change it later? | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm ready for it ken. testing sounds like a great idea to me
Snarbo, you misse the point of HBC debate, methinks, because of our sysetm with Contribution Notes, which gives us a "paper trail" documentation is the single biggest issue. If you rpvide documentatio I will accept almost anything.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with you, James that is what it sounds like to me as well.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 404 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I agree with you, James that is what it sounds like to me as well.
Skip  | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
But with this system, we would need to dispense with the notion that our common name concept is really a common name. It's really a most-frequently-in-the-DVDP-database name and may not be the person's real name, or accurate name or anything "provable" by peerage records. So we would just need to change the language of the rules to reflect that the name to use is the most-frequently-in-the-DVDP-database name and get rid of the 'common name' concept. You are correct. We will end up with the most commonly credited name as found in the DVDP database. Quote:
Secondly, and more importantly, is what to do when the most-frequently-in-the-DVDP-database name changes over time as the database grows? Is there a way to fix this name so that we don't have to change it later? Yes, there is the potential for this to come up. I honestly don't know the answer to this but I am sure we can come up with a solution. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Another thought, would it be possible to set this up so that when we contribute an 'as credited' profile, that the system performs the search on the names and converts them to linked name pairs based on the data in the database? | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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