Quoting Agrare:

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if you read my post, which I quoted the same rules kdh1949 later quoted I pretty much addressed what you said in your post.

I read your post. My response was directed to Ken (kdh).

Quoting Agrare:

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As for it being implicit in the rules, I really don't think that is enough.

It's not explicit, but it's still sufficient enough that one cannot ignore it. Using the information provided, we are directed toward use of standard capitalization. We are not directed at all, either directly or indirectly, to do otherwise.

Quoting Agrare:

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And I don't think we can go by the examples because when we had a similar discussion about how Star Wars: Episode I: The Phantom Menace shouldn't be Star Wars I: The Phantom Menace because it was an specific example in the rules Ken removed it from the given examples.

Ken changed another rule which then made the Star Wars example obsolete. He was quickly notified and he quickly removed it. That event however does not give us the right to ignore all other examples in the rules.

Quoting Agrare:

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And I never said what "Check Capitalization" means. I just said that it was very vague and it could mean to match the box. though that would be an assumption, just as you saying it doesn't mean that, or saying it means something else is an assumption. "When you make an assumption you make an ass out of 'u' and 'mption'" (prize to whoever sources the quote )

I said that we are not directed to ignore the given examples if the box data is different. That's a factual statement and not an assumption.

You are saying that it could mean we are to match the box; however, that is contrary to the given examples and is therefore an incorrect statement rather than an assumption.

Quoting Agrare:

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also, you are taking the examples out of context. The examples are giving when referring to the 'joining words'. I'll admit that the  second example (The Matrix Reloaded) doesn't really seem to be an example of joining words, but the fact remains that the rules never clearly state any specifics on title capitalization as compared to the case or for standardizing it.

The examples are not out of context. They are examples of how to capitalize titles, both those which include and don't include "joining words" as you have noted. You are correct that the rule doesn't describe how to capitalize in detail, but the rule does give several examples, all of which use standard capitalization rules. One cannot assume that standard capitalization rules are to be ignored when all of the given examples use standard capitalization rules.

Quoting Agrare:

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In short if someone submited "i,Robot" just like that, I wouldn't vote no and I probably wouldnt even vote no to "I,Robot" or the variations with a space after the comma.

It would be appropriate to vote gainst "i,Robot" based on capitalization just as it would be appropriate to vote against:

What about Bob?
once
planet earth
Gilmore girls
the office
annie hall
maid in manhattan
10 things I hate about you

...and so on.

Quoting Agrare:

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All I'm saying is that the rules don't actually, explicitly, cover this.

On this, we agree.

Quoting Agrare:

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We try to get the information as accurate to the whats on the disc/case as possible in all cases so why are we now arguing the opposite when it comes to title.

The examples given for titles have remained nearly unchanged from the old guidelines to the "new" (1995  ) rules, so this is the way it's been.

Quoting Agrare:

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Since everyone is quoting the standard capitalization rule from the credits how about we quote the part of the credits rule that says

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list names exactly as they are in the credits

.
Additionally if you read the next line the standard capitalization for credits  only applies

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Exception: If the credit information is entirely capitalized, use standard capitalization rules instead.

the fact that it is or isn't grammatically wrong has no bearing.

I'm not using the standard capitalization rule from the credits. I'm using what's shown in the title section of the rules. In the context of the examples given, a lower case letter "i" is inappropriate.


Quoting Agrare:

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The capitalization of the title was deliberately chosen and I really don't think grammatical rules apply to it and don't think direct copying of any 'grammatical rule violations' qualifies as encouraging it. Not like we are gonna convince Hollywood to only put titles in Standard Capitalization.

All font choices on DVD covers are deliberately chosen. We're not directed to follow these font choices and we're given several examples to the contrary.

Quoting kdh1949:

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Quoting m.cellophane:

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Unfortunately the first statement isn't too clear about "check capitalization."  That could simply mean to make sure your entry matches what's on the box (i.e.,  The i Inside or i, ROBOT). 

It doesn't mean that. We are given examples to use regardless of how they're printed on the box. There's no directive to not use the given examples if the title on the box is differently capitalized.

While I agree with most of what you said in your comments, I must respectfully disagree with this comment.  Yes, we're given examples to use regardless of how they're printed on the box. The flaw, IMHO, in your argument is that all the examples given deal with "joining words" and "i" is clearly not a "joining word" in the title, like an article or conjunction would be.

I still maintain that "i,ROBOT" and "The i Inside" do not conflict with the rules and that the lower case "i" IS appropriate.

Quoting the rules:

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"The Matrix Reloaded" is correctly capitalized. "The matrix reloaded" is not.

What joining words does this example deal with?

Quoting RHo:

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Quoting Unicus69:

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Far too many people are claiming 'standard capitalization' when it isn't in the rules...at least not for English titles.

The rules tell us to use normal standard capitalisation for non-English titles. And they do spell out the standard capitalisation for English titles, namely to capitalise non-joining words only. The language of the rules is a little bit rough though.

No, the rules do not say to capitalize non-joining words.  They simply say not to capitalize joining words, that does not automatically mean you capitalize everything else.  In addition, when talking about titles, joining words have nothing to do with standard capitalization rules.

Let us have a closer look at this rule because it is more than "a little bit rough":

For English titles do not capitalize joining words such as "of", "the", "a", "in", etc. unless they are the first, last or only word in of the title. "Lord of the Rings" is correctly capitalized. "Lord Of The Rings" is not. "The Matrix Reloaded" is correctly capitalized. "The matrix reloaded" is not.

First,the proper term for a joining word is 'conjuntion'.  The words "of", "the", "a" and "in" are not 'conjunctions'.  Since they are not conjunctions, they are not joining words.

Second, the examples given in the rule do not match what the rule says.  Neither "Lord of the Rings" nor "The Matrix Reloaded" contain joining words.

The rule is a complete mess.  I know what the rule meant to say but, for some reason it uses the wrong term and doesn't say what it meant to say.  The examples given are 'prepositions'.  So, for the rule to mean what most of you think it means, it must be changed to read:

For English titles capitalize major words but not short prepositions or the articles "the," "a," or "an," if they are not the first word of the title.

That, would be following standard capitalization rules. 

Quoting Patsa:

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Funny how we've managed all these years with a "complete mess" of rules. I think some of you are just out to be difficult on purpose. 

the fact that a problem/issue with the rule hasn't come up until now doesn't change the fact that as worded the rule does not say what people are saying it does and is a "complete mess"

yes, I am playing devils advocate. But the fact is there is more than one interpretation of this (and many other) rules as they stand. And it seems as of late people are constantly trying to 'force' their interpretation as the correct/only interpretation in order to get the online data to more closely match their preference. So its not really some people being difficult, its all people. They are just being difficult on different sides of the coin. (this is not the only currently active topic with a discussion along these lines)

I said that i wouldn't vote no to a title such as I, Robot / i, Robot / or version with no space. I never said I would vote yes however. But I was told it would be 'appropriate' to vote against i, Robot based on capitalization. Well I think its also (as per the rules) equally appropriate to vote for that title. For strictly i, Robot vs I, Robot the search isn't even an issue since both would be picked up the same.

I just find it amazing that the same argument of interpretation of the rule vs strict verbatim meaning vs implied meaning etc is used to justify data that ultimately doesn't make sense. Sometimes its the 'spirit' of the rules or forum consensus is this so do it that way and other times its strictly speaking the rules say to do it like this so do it this way.

As far as this specific issue goes, it can be clarified by probably only 1 line added to the rules.

here's a question, how would people enter credits that were all lower case? as per how the rules read it would be incorrect to apply standard capitalization but i'd feel fairly safe to say there is at least one movie out there that is done this way, its probably been entered using standard caps and probably was voted yes to by most if not all, but according to the rules (as they read) it would be wrong. credits are only standardized if in all caps. it says nothing about all lowercase, just as the title says nothing about standard capitalization of all capital titles.

additionally, wouldn't standard capitalization for THE MATRIX RELOADED (as it appears on the front cover) be The matrix reloaded ? But this is a title, so its not standard sentence capitalization but standard title capitalization. So what is that? well it appears that comes from a document called AACR2 (which I couldn't find freely available) the closest I found to the pertinent information would be

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The rules can be found at their website (loc.gov), but simply put, the first, the last, and every significant word in the title should start with a capital letter.

link

and this

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A.4.A1  Capitalization in Title and Statement of Responsibility Area.
"In general, capitalize the first word of a title (title proper, alternative title, parallel title, quoted title, etc.). If the first word of a title is a compound term beginning with a lower case letter or letters (e.g., e for electronic) followed by one or more letters in upper case, capitalize only the secondary element of the compound term immediately following the introductory letter(s), whether or not the elements are separated by a hyphen. For a title that begins with an Internet address (or part of an Internet address), do not capitalize the first element if it is not capitalized on the resource. If the title includes a corporate name with unusual capitalization, follow the capitalization practice of the body. Capitalize other words as instructed in the rules for the language involved. See A20 for the capitalization of names of documents."

link A.4.A1
though i'm not 100% sure if thats only company names or titles for works of art/books/movies/etc

-Agrare

Quoting Unicus69:

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Quoting RHo:

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Quoting Unicus69:

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Far too many people are claiming 'standard capitalization' when it isn't in the rules...at least not for English titles.

The rules tell us to use normal standard capitalisation for non-English titles. And they do spell out the standard capitalisation for English titles, namely to capitalise non-joining words only. The language of the rules is a little bit rough though.

No, the rules do not say to capitalize non-joining words.  They simply say not to capitalize joining words, that does not automatically mean you capitalize everything else.  In addition, when talking about titles, joining words have nothing to do with standard capitalization rules.

Let us have a closer look at this rule because it is more than "a little bit rough":

For English titles do not capitalize joining words such as "of", "the", "a", "in", etc. unless they are the first, last or only word in of the title. "Lord of the Rings" is correctly capitalized. "Lord Of The Rings" is not. "The Matrix Reloaded" is correctly capitalized. "The matrix reloaded" is not.

First,the proper term for a joining word is 'conjuntion'.  The words "of", "the", "a" and "in" are not 'conjunctions'.  Since they are not conjunctions, they are not joining words.

Second, the examples given in the rule do not match what the rule says.  Neither "Lord of the Rings" nor "The Matrix Reloaded" contain joining words.

The rule is a complete mess.  I know what the rule meant to say but, for some reason it uses the wrong term and doesn't say what it meant to say.  The examples given are 'prepositions'.  So, for the rule to mean what most of you think it means, it must be changed to read:

For English titles capitalize major words but not short prepositions or the articles "the," "a," or "an," if they are not the first word of the title.

That, would be following standard capitalization rules. 

Can't say what I want to.  

Skip

Quoting skipnet50:

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Can't say what I want to.  

Skip

Then why say anything? 

The fact remains...standard capitalization rules for titles state that you capitalize major words but not short prepositions or the articles "the," "a," or "an," if they are not the first word of the title.  I didn't make this up.  It is quite easy to find if one feels like looking.

Like it or not, the rule, as written, is a mess.  It says not to capitalize joining words and then proceeds to use non-joining words as examples.

Quoting Unicus69:

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The rule is a complete mess.  I know what the rule meant to say but, for some reason it uses the wrong term and doesn't say what it meant to say.  The examples given are 'prepositions'.  So, for the rule to mean what most of you think it means, it must be changed to read:

For English titles capitalize major words but not short prepositions or the articles "the," "a," or "an," if they are not the first word of the title.

That, would be following standard capitalization rules. 

I agree! Until the rules are clarified in this regard, I read them as above.