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Collected Statements from Invelos on contribution discussions
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Genre changes

Quoting Ace_of_Sevens:
Quote:
This is an issue in a few updates of mine. Just wanted to run it by you all. My understanding is changing genres is fine if the current ones are clearly deficient (i.e. not listing disaster for Category 7: End of the World or not listing accessories for Digital Video Essentials) or if it's a part of a larger update. For instance: if I were fixing bad audio tracks on Futurama and decided it was better listed as Television, Animation, Comedy than Television, Animation Science Fiction (I'm not asking whether you agree with this particular change, just whether this sort of thing is ok in principle). Do we have general agreement on this?


Statements:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
The rule is to prevent ping-ponging of genre order. If there's a valid contribution being made with other changes, there's nothing in the rules to prevent reordering/changing the genres. 

However, two points:

- There should be a specific reasoning listed for the reorder, listed in the contribution notes
- Even with a reason, you should expect a larger chance to draw No votes from users who disagree with the reorder.

It is likely the contribution will be declined if there is a significant resistance to the genre changes, so all things being equal it is advisable to leave the genre changes local unless you have a good reason to change them and expect consensus.

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Ace is absolutely correct - changing genres is not against the rules, as long as either a) there are other changes required and included -OR- b) the genres are blatantly incorrect.

The caveats I listed above apply to the wisdom of making the contribution, but there is nothing rule-violating about a contribution that meets one or both of the above requirements.

I'll trust this ends the discussion of whether these are against the rules.

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
You are certainly welcome to disagree with a particular change in genres - the best avenue for that is a No vote with a brief polite note. 

I'm just answering the op's question, which is whether these contributions are ok by the rules, and they are.


Link to original thread:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=440677&PageNum=1

Quoted posts from Ken on page 1.
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Possessives in title = OMB?

Quoting ninehours:
Quote:
When you have someone credited in the title of a film




Does this get a OMB credit?


Statements:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
I would agree that the current rules don't allow for this to be included as a credit.  However, I think it's worth considering a change that would allow a title possessive to translate into an OMB credit.

The question I would have is how often these possessives are indicating some other relationship that wouldn't classically go under OMB.

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
The current rules are clear on possessives - if a change is desired on this, it deserves its own topic in the rules committee forum.

The op's question has been answered - the rules currently do not allow the OMB credit based solely on the cover title.  Discussion of whether to amend the rules to allow this, and the relevant circumstances, should also be moved to the rules committee forum.


Link to original thread:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=443680&PageNum=1

Quoted posts from Ken on page 1 and page 4.
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Rating: Disc vs. Cover

Statement:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Newly clarified.  Here's the latest:

Use the Rating shown on the DVD cover. When there is no rating indicated or no rated version of the film on the disc, use the NR rating.

So:

Case says Rated R but disc has both a rated and unrated version = R
Case says "Unrated Extended Super Gross-out Version Too Extreme For Theaters", disc has both rated and unrated version = Unrated.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rating vs. unrated

Quoting TheMovieman:
Quote:
So, what is the status on this? Ken says:

Case says "Unrated Extended Super Gross-out Version Too Extreme For Theaters", disc has both rated and unrated version = Unrated.

Well, Live Wire may not have an edition but the top banner does state R-rated and Unrated Versions and on the back it has the Unrated standard logo next to the R rating... I'm still a little confused by this.


Statement:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
As the rule is now, the rating should be entered as R.

"When there is no rating indicated or no rated version of the film on the disc, use the NR rating."

The Unrated indicator is frequently in the Edition field for these.



Linkt to original thread:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=444533

Quoted posts from Ken on page 2 and page 3.
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Features that are accessible vie BD Live

When trailers are accessible via BD Live but not on the actual disc...
Quoting 0ddba11:
Quote:
should the trailers checkbox be checked on the features section in the profile?

Thanks.

(Edited to add: the trailers will automatically download and begin playing before the feature IF your player is hooked up to the internet.)


Statement:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
They should definitely be counted as trailers.  After all, we can't have everyone in agreement, can we???



Just kidding, BD-Live-only content should only result in the BD-Live checkbox.


Link to original thread:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=447262&PageNum=1

Quoted post from Ken on page 2.
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Company suffixes in Group Dividers

Quoting dee1959jay:
Quote:
As the Contribution Rules stand now, company suffixes (e.g. Inc., Ltd.) are not to be included in Studio names and Media Companies.

My question is whether or not company suffixes should be included in Group Dividers (e.g. in Special Effects company names).

On the one hand, it could be argued that what goes into Group Dividers should be exactly as credited, and hence the company suffix should be entered as well. Moreover we cannot filter on what is entered in Group Dividers (as opposed to Studios/Media Companies), so removing the suffix serves no purpose.

On the other hand, one could argue that consistency within the Contribution Rules would require the ban on company suffixes that is in place for Studios/Media Companies to extend to Group Dividers (Special Effects company names etc.) as well. Moreover it could be argued that the legal status of a company (as indicated by the suffix) is irrelevant for DVDP purposes.

Opinions, please?

Note: of course, it would be great if Ken or Gerri could tell us one way or the other... 


Statement:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
I don't see enough driving reason for completeness in this field to warrant deviation from the existing studio rule.  Therefore, leave out the suffixes here as well.  I'll queue this up for inclusion in the next rules update.


Link to original thread:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=456958&PageNum=1

Quoted post from Ken on page 2.
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Cast and crew in pre release contributions

Statement:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
It is also acceptable to submit cast / crew listed on the cover for pre releases.


Link to original thread:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=459581

Quoted post from Ken on page 1.
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Clarification on Adult rating/Adult Genre in DVDP

Quoting MassL:
Quote:
Hi,
I wanted to contrubute a new profile (Ilsa - She Wolf of the SS), which has not been rated in Germany but the contribution was declined with the reason:
"The contributed profile is an adult entry, but was not marked as such. Please set a genre as Adult or the rating as Adult."
So how shall I mark this contribution, when this profile has not been acutally rated?? And no, I will not rate it as "FSK18" and remove it again in another contribution^^. I mean this is a mistake by the DVD Profiler team and should be accepted. Sounds that it's my fault, that there is no rating^^


Statements:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
We've instructed the evaluators to require either an adult genre or an adult rating be assigned if the cover has nudity.  We do this so the online system can decide when it's ok to show a cover.  As always, the local settings are completely up to the user.

We realize that the standards of images which are acceptable to display vary from place to place and we can't possibly come up with any single standard that would fit all of them (or likely any two).

Let's be honest here - Invelos is hardly censoring DVDs, and we're not out to impose any particular morality on anyone.  Want proof?  Browse the (literally) tens of thousands of explicit adult DVDs and Blu-rays in our database.

So, it's quite simple - nudity on the front or back? Check 'adult' genre or rating.


Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
That's not the cover referenced by the op.  The profile in question is disc ID 11B85F0E92D36784.  Same title, different cover.


Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
I personally would mark those as adult, as the content is in that direction.  However, for the purposes of the discussion at hand, the evaluators would not require it based on those examples (of course we've seen only the fronts).

Don't forget that evaluators also sometimes (gasp) make mistakes, but if they're following the guidelines correctly, adult would not be required.


Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
Thanks Ken...

So if I get this right... anything that has shown nudity on the cover is automatic Adult to get it accepted. But if a DVD is of a sexual nature it is ok to submit them with Adult also.

Yep.


Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
The only issue I'm covering here is what's already stated - nudity on the cover requires an adult genre or rating.

We're not stepping into the genre definition beyond that statement.


Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
If there's nudity on the cover, check adult for genre or rating. 

This does not preclude other uses of the adult genre and rating.


Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
You may wish to open a discussion in the contribution rules forum to cover that issue, however I don't foresee attempting to integrate a specific definition of 'adult' into the rules.  I believe that's best handled by the community at the locality level.


Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
I'll cue it up for the next update, however this isn't a new rule - the evaluators have had this guidance for years.  Likely the fact that some were looking at the wrong cover added confusion to this particular case.


Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Quoting Staid S Barr:
Quote:
Where nudity starts? Use you own judgement, and the screeners will step in if they think differently.

This is absolutely correct. We're not changing any rules and this is not a new policy.  The Catch 22 covers and profiles all were approved without problem.


Link to original thread:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=459517&PageNum=1

Quoted posts from Ken on page 8, page 9 and page 10.
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Dividers within dividers



Not the original post Ken is refering to, but a repeat of it:
Quoting tweeter:
Quote:
I'll repeat my Contribution Rules forum message here that prompted Ken's reply in the opening message

==================================================

I'm trying to decide if there is a better way to do these dividers and this seems like the right place to hash it out.

Back to the Future 2. It has nested group credits as seen here:



My take on the credits is
1) The Years are Group Start dividers
2) Video Waiters and Griff Gang are Group Start dividers (nested)
3) I add the appropriate Group End divider for each Start

and i get this:



Ideally Wood through Ishida would be indented under 2015 like Birdsong is under 1985 and the nested groups would be pushed to a second level.  But that isn't what happens.

While this would be technically correct under v3.6, is it the best way to handle it?  Is there an option?

(All the dividers currently exist in the on-line profile)



Statement:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
This could be entered as tweeter has it.  Arguably, the inner heading is more important, and that's the one that would show in the credit info window.

Alternatively, this could be entered as "2015 - Video Waiters" , "2015 - Griff Gang", "2015" and "1985" for the dividers.


Link to original thread: (In Rules Commitee Forum, so not accessable for all)
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=439320&messageID=1202019#M1202019
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Cast-/Crew-Members with mixed cases in CLT and local/online db

Statement:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
All points covered by others above, but to reiterate:
The CLT is not case-sensitive.  Also, DVD Profiler will not change the case of a cast member when accepting an update.  It does all cast member comparisons without case sensitivity as well.  It's also not possible to submit a contribution with a "Credited As" entry that varies only in case.

With all that being the case (no pun intended), there should be no reason to change your local case to match, for standard deviations such as "De Nero" or "de Nero".

The case-based ping-ponging can occur, but it amounts to nothing as the changes are not downloaded for those that already have that actor.

By the way, kudos to all on a polite, productive discussion!


Link to original thread:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=425379&PageNum=1

Quoted post from Ken on page 4.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Additional

The link to when this was changed:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=427304
Quote:
Jan 22, 2010 - System Change - The acceptance system now removes 'Credited As' entries from cast/crew which reflect only a case change.


And an example from another thread:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Examples:

Submission of a cast member:

Name: Bob Smith
Credited As: Bob Smyth

Result: No change

Submission of a cast member:
Name: Bob Smith
Credited As: Bob smith

Result: Credited As is stripped during the contribution.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
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Labels of Episode listings for TV series

The rules are saying the following on episode listings:

"If the Main Feature of the disc is a collection of some kind (e.g. shorts, TV episodes, multiple films, etc.) rather than one single feature, a simple list of the collection contents may be added to the standard overview. Example:
1. Title
2. Title
3. Title".

Some users argued that this implies that the episode list should not be labeled something like "Episodes:", others opposed this view.

Ken eventually decided to cater to both views and allow both.

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
The example is just an example, and not intended to be an absolute template.  As Dr.K said, "Having the "Episode List" header in the overview and not having it are both perfectly valid."


Which effectively means that whatever comes in first, stays in. Ken's statement is here.
 Last edited: by dee1959jay
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Contribution Notes

Quoting Gerri Cole:
Quote:
I personally would not support longer contribution notes. Keep it short and simple and put the most vital information first.

Course I have a very different view of contribution notes that most of you do

-Gerri
...James

"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan
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Cover Scans

Quoting Gerri Cole:
Quote:
It is very important with images to be specific about what your changes are if you are submitting a full size image and there is already one there. You should point out specific differences and call them out. The scans must be significantly different in order to be accepted.
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Cover Scans

Quoting Gerri Cole:
Quote:
It is very important with images to be specific about what your changes are if you are submitting a full size image and there is already one there. You should point out specific differences and call them out. The scans must be significantly different in order to be accepted.


Just to have it crosslinked togehter:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=430575&PageNum=3&messageID=1175904#M1175904

Quote:
...
As stated, updating images require a significant increase in quality in order to get approved. It is usually good in the case of submitting a slightly better scan to point out differences that can be seen.
...

Quote shorted
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Contributing IMDB cloned cast/crew data with contibution notes claiming the data is form the movie credits

Statement:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Quoting jmbox:
Quote:
I've seen many examples where the cast list is obviously from IMDB, and the contribution notes follow the pattern of "cast/crew data taken from IMDB" - Declined. "cast/crew data taken from end credits" - Approved.

I don't know if there's any way we can highlight these contributors to the screeners, so that they can be flagged and have future contributions more thoroughly checked.

I agree with ninehours, in that central profiles is the way to go and solves several issues with the current system.

If you see an example of this, please open a support ticket with a link to the example.  Generally we give one warning on this, then a permanent contribution ban.


Link to original thread:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=493819&PageNum=1

Quoted post from Ken on page 2.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Additional:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=427276&messageID=1157970#M1157970
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Sticker front cover
First release cover vs. first entry cover

Quoting Kluge:
Quote:
On the cover of my BD of District 9 is sticked this adhesive:



The cover under the stiker is this:



Which one I should contribute as front cover?


Statement:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
In this case the sticker is similar to a slip cover and so if it is the first release, that's the correct cover.  This is similar to many US versions I've seen where the back of the set is a flimsy piece of paper with a glob of temporary glue holding it on.  Those have the UPC, overview, info, etc. and are the correct back scan in those cases.  I personally dislike them as they have a habit of getting lost around my house.

It is incorrect to state that the first in wins - the first release wins, until we enable multi-cover support.


Link to original thread:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=514610&PageNum=1

Quoted post from Ken on page 3.
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Group divider in Crew: Just company name or extended details?

Quoting ninehours:
Quote:
OK lets try and get this sorted one way or the other.
Should Group dividers used in the crew section have just the Company name Only or should it include the complete details

This is an example of where using the complete details adds context to the credit(s) under it


This is an example where the extended details do not add any context to the credits under it


One of the argument against using the extended details is the divider length but Ken has stated that you can abbreviate it to fit (I will include a option in the poll for divider length)

My own preference is for the extended details as this is the closes to the actual film credits but am happy to go either way, hopefully this will get it sorted one way or the other and Ken will take action to amend the rules


Statement:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
Quote:
List individual credits only, not company name credits. Exception: If a company name heads a group of crew, use the Group divider to enter the company name


This is saying that we don't list company names as credits, we list them as a group divider.  It does not say that we only list the company name. 

Dividers help give context to the credits in the group.  That is not best served by excluding this extended information.  Include it.


Link to original thread:
http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=467239&PageNum=1

Quoted post from Ken on page 5.
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