Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4  Previous   Next
Common Name Thomas (L.) ("Brooklyn") Bellissimo
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorninehours
Registered: April 3, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,998
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Thomas Bellissimo  Special Effects/Actor/Make-up Effects/Self
http://uk.imdb.com/name/nm0069085/

"T. "Brooklyn" Bellissimo" is credited in the following 20 titles (68 profiles):
"T. Brooklyn Bellissimo" is credited in the following 4 titles (23 profiles):
"Thomas Bellissimo" is credited in the following 3 titles (35 profiles):
"Thomas L. Bellissimo" is credited in the following 12 titles (56 profiles):
"Tom Bellissimo" is credited in the following 13 titles (89 profiles):
"Tom L. Bellissimo" is credited in the following 2 titles (8 profiles):
"Tommy "Brooklyn" Bellissimo" is credited in the following 2 titles (2 profiles):
"Tommy Bellissimo" is credited in the following 3 titles (3 profiles):
"Tommy L. Bellissimo" is credited in the following 4 titles (11 profiles): 

T. "Brooklyn" Bellissimo Confirmed Credits 1
House on Haunted Hill

T. Brooklyn Bellissimo Confirmed Credits 3
Bulletproof
Shade
What Lies Beneath

Thomas Bellissimo Confirmed Credits 0

Thomas L. Bellissimo Confirmed Credits 1
The Mask

Tom Bellissimo Confirmed Credits 6
American History X
Full Tilt Boogie (Cast)
License to Wed
Once In A Lifetime
Pulp Fiction
Saw

Tom L. Bellissimo Confirmed Credits 0

Tommy "Brooklyn" Bellissimo Confirmed Credits 1
Tales from the Crypt Season 3

Tommy Bellissimo Confirmed Credits 1
Tales from the Crypt Season 3

Tommy L. Bellissimo Confirmed Credits 1
American History X

Unconfirmed Credits: If you have any of the Credits listed below (or any that aren't) could you please check them, Thanks

Bandits 
Carnivàle: Season 1
Corky Romano
Far From Home 
Home of the Brave
Mad Men: Season 1
Mad Men: Season 2 
Meskie Opowiesci (Two-Fisted Tales)
Set it Off 
V.I.P.: Season 1 

Invalid Credits
Dogma = Special Effects Co-coordinator
Jackie Brown = "Effects Co-ordinator"
 Last edited: by ninehours
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKluge
Registered: August 4, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Italy Posts: 2,419
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
American History X --> Tom Bellissimo (visual effects)
American History X --> Tommy L. Bellissimo as Cop #2
Pulp Fiction --> Tom Bellissimo (Make-up effects)
Saw --> Tom Bellissimo (visual effects)

Dogma --> Tom Bellissimo (Special Effects co-coordinator) not valid
Updated List of Accepted Birth Years
 Last edited: by Kluge
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorPantheon
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,819
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Not wanting to offend....but I never see the point of this sort of thread when the CLT seems quite clear.

The rules state to use the CLT to determine the common name and in this example there is a clear winner with 20 entries...with the next having 7 less.

Surely, the object here is to take what the CLT says...and, in doing so, more and more entries will be added to the most frequent name?

This thread is obviously as a result of half a dozen or so updates I just sent in using the CLT results; so, once again I am at a loss.
If we can't use the CLT, as the rules tell us to, the the whole Credited As system becomes a farce, in my opinion.

ON TOPIC:
Pete (at least I think it was Pete) did the Tales from the crypt Season 3 updates and he is credited there as Tommy Bellissimo.

Locally, I had 7 entries for Tommy L. Bellisimo, 4 for Tommy Bellissimo and ZERO for T. "Brooklyn" Bellissimo...however, because the CLT is the final word I have just spent a while changing them. What was the point!!?

Sorry, but this sort of situation really gets my goat.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorPantheon
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,819
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Saw: Tom Bellissimo
What Lies Beneath: T. Brooklyn Bellissimo
The Mask: Thomas L. Bellissimo
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorninehours
Registered: April 3, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,998
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Pantheon:
Quote:
The rules state to use the CLT to determine the common name and in this example there is a clear winner with 20 entries:

The problem is that the CLT is a very blunt tool and should not be blindly followed, if you look at the actual titles listed there are only 6 not 20 (and could still turn out to be the common name)
"T. "Brooklyn" Bellissimo" is credited in the following 20 titles (68 profiles):
Bandits
Carnivàle: The Complete First Season
House on Haunted Hill
Jackie Brown
Mad Men: Season One
Mad Men: Season Two

If you look at the 13 titles listed under Tom Bellissimo there are actualy 10
American History X
Danielle Steel: Once In A Lifetime
Dogma
Far From Home
Full Tilt Boogie
License to Wed
Meskie Opowiesci
Pulp Fiction
Saw
Set it Off

So just using the CLT Tom Bellissimo is the common name
 Last edited: by ninehours
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorninehours
Registered: April 3, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,998
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Pantheon:
Quote:
Not wanting to offend....but I never see the point of this sort of thread when the CLT seems quite clear.

The rules state to use the CLT to determine the common name

http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=430575&PageNum=2&messageID=1171683#M1171683
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbigdaddyhorse
Registered: June 21, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,621
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Jackie Brown is "Effects Co-ordinator", so probably invalid.
On a related note, Dogma is Tom Bellisimo, one s, if somehow valid.

Tales from the Crypt Season 3:
Disc 1 has Tommy Bellissimo on the first 5 episodes (of 6).
Disc 2 has Tommy "Brooklyn" Bellissimo for all 6 episodes.
Disc 3 has Tommy "Brooklyn" Bellissimo on both episodes.
Not sure how to break that season up. There's more with "Brooklyn" than not.

All of these are my own audits so I know them to be 100% accurate.
Couple other invalid local only notes I have:
Nightmare on Elm Street 3 - Special Effects Bone Ghoul - Thomas Bellissimo
Leatherface: Texas Chainsaw Massacre 3 - Special Effects Coordinator/Stunts - Thomas L. Bellissimo
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbigdaddyhorse
Registered: June 21, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,621
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
What is his credit on Shade?
I own the US dvd, audited it myself, and don't even have him for local only. I would've kept a local note on him I would think, unless I was very high.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbigdaddyhorse
Registered: June 21, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 2,621
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Full Tilt Boogie screengrab I just got while auditing:



I also noticed he has 2 credits in American History X, from a recent audit I did as well:
Tom Bellassimo for Visual Effects (crew)
Tommy Bellassimo as Cop #2 (cast)

Note Full Tilt Boogie is cast also.
 Last edited: by bigdaddyhorse
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorPantheon
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,819
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting ninehours:
Quote:
The problem is that the CLT is a very blunt tool and should not be blindly followed


I understand the reasoning behind this type of thread...just not the point.

The rules state: "To determine whether to enter the name directly as credited, or to use the "Credited As" field, use the Credit Lookup tool."

So, if the rules state to use the CLT then we should just go with those results.

On the surface the 20 results are the majority...and if everyone used that name as the common name; then the majority would increase; therefore making this sort of thread a little redundant IMO.

Like I said, where there is a very close margin between results I can understand it more readily.

It cannot be expected that users of this program should analyze the results of the CLT in minutiae and then create threads to investigate further. The process becomes unwieldy and subsequently puts people off (myself included).

I want to look at the CLT and use the results...not be running to the forum every five minutes to get more information.

On topic, irrespective of the results of this thread I will not be revisiting all the profiles I changed today and resubmitting. I have a common name locally, that matches the results of the CLT - and that is ALL that is required according to the contribution rules.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhuskersports
Registered: September 29, 2008
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 2,508
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Bulletproof: SFX Coordinator - T. Brooklyn Bellissimo
My one wish for the DVD Profiler online database: Ban or remove the disc-level profiles of TV season sets. It completely screws up/inflates the CLT.
FACT: Imdb is WRONG 70% of the time! Misspelled cast, incomplete cast, wrong cast/crew roles. So for those who want DVD Profiler to be "as perfect as Imdb", good luck with that.
Stop adding UNIT crew! They're invalid credits. Stop it!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,665
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
'License to Wed': Tom Bellissimo (a valid "Special Effects Coordinator" credit, since there is no "Special Effects Supervisor").
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,665
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Pantheon:
Quote:
Surely, the object here is to take what the CLT says...

Actually, no. The object is, and always has been, to use the most-credited form of a person's name as the common name.

And the "credit lookup tool" is, indeed, a "tool" that's supposed to help us to determine what that most-credited form is. It's results tell you a lot, if you keep in mind that those "results" are not just the totals at the top. You really need to look through those "results" to get an idea of what the most-credited form really is. Generally, due to the amount of bad data in our database, "determining" is not simply looking at the totals, but consists of whittling down those inflated numbers by subtracting IMDb-mined profiles, profiles with incorrect production years and profiles with missing or incorrect original titles. Only then will you arrive at the actual most-credited form of a person's name. With a bit of practice, this is generally extremely easy to spot. Occasionally, if it's too big a mess to be able to see a clear outcome, a common name-finding thread may be needed to arrive at a solid conclusion.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorPantheon
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,819
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
but consists of whittling down those inflated numbers by subtracting IMDb-mined profiles, profiles with incorrect production years and profiles with missing or incorrect original titles. Only then will you arrive at the actual most-credited form of a person's name.


You may think I'm being deliberately obtuse and I can assure you I'm not.

I actually don't need an explanation of the whys and hows of this situation...I know and have heard it all before.

The point I have been trying to make (rather unsuccessfully I may add) is that the Contribution Rules do NOT tell us to do any of the things you mention.
Quite simply they tell us to use the CLT results.

It is unreasonable and unrealistic (IMO) to expect users to go through the process you describe T!M (no matter how 'easy' it becomes with practice).

If the CLT is not reliable or accurate then either Invelos need to scrap it and start again or the rules need to be amended.

My point is that this situation is, once again, the forum imposing their instructions upon the users of Profiler with nothing to back it up.
I contribute a lot and I mainly use the CLT and unfortunately that's the way it's going to stay.

So, I would request that in future if someone spots a Credited As entry of mine that they disagree with or have doubts about that they drop me a PM. I will then withdraw that contribution while the person who contacted me investigates further.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorninehours
Registered: April 3, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 1,998
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting bigdaddyhorse:
Quote:
What is his credit on Shade?
I own the US dvd, audited it myself, and don't even have him for local only. I would've kept a local note on him I would think, unless I was very high.

Special Effects Coordinator (about 1:53 in credits)

Do us a favour please mate and reduce the size of your screen cap
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
Profiling since Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 8,665
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Pantheon:
Quote:
You may think I'm being deliberately obtuse and I can assure you I'm not.

I didn't think that at all. Still I felt your post warranted a reply, even if there probably wasn't anything in there that you didn't already know.

Quote:
The point I have been trying to make (rather unsuccessfully I may add) is that the Contribution Rules do NOT tell us to do any of the things you mention.

It does, actually, but it limits itself to the phrase "use the credit lookup tool", without stating exactly how to use it. Over the years, Ken has further commented on that in the forums, and I just gave you a recap of all that. Again: Ken has told us from the start that we're supposed to use the most-credited form of someone's name as the common name, and he immediately also stated that the raw CLT numbers should not be trusted blindly. Right from day one, mind you. Whenever users have played the "but the rules only state to use the CLT" card saying that common name-finding threads carry no weight, he has repeatedly come in to confirm that the results from common name-finding threads do trump the raw numbers.

So no, you're not forced to do anything, just like, for instance, you're not forced to contribute complete data to a profile, but are also welcome to contribute partial data. Which is pretty much what submitting a name without attaching it's proper common name really is: submitting partial data. So yeah, submitting partial data is allowed. But then don't be surprised if someone comes along to complete it. That's all. This thread is (possibly) just an example of the latter, and yet you're complaining. I don't understand why. If a credit needs the addition of a common name, then so be it. I don't see what your problem with that is. You're not forced to do more work than you want to do, so that can't be the problem, yet it seems you don't want to be faced with the perfectly valid findings of someone that does the extra work? Why not?

Quote:
If the CLT is not reliable or accurate then either Invelos need to scrap it and start again or the rules need to be amended.

Again, I'm sure many people agree with you - heck, even I agree with you up to some point - but right now, it is what it is, and we can only work with what we're given. Again, it's nothing new that the CLT isn't accurate: Ken literally said not to blindly trust the numbers right from day one, so I never did. I understand why you'd like to simply look at the totals and be done with it, but right from the start, we were told that it doesn't work that way. We can complain about that, and hope/campaign for change, but until that time comes, it's what we have.

Quote:
My point is that this situation is, once again, the forum imposing their instructions upon the users of Profiler with nothing to back it up.

Now that is just not true. All those things are publicly stated by Ken. That's not exactly "nothing to back it up".

Quote:
So, I would request that in future if someone spots a Credited As entry of mine that they disagree with or have doubts about that they drop me a PM. I will then withdraw that contribution while the person who contacted me investigates further.

That made me laugh. I, too, would like PM's from anyone who votes "no" to any of my contributions, with me waiting while they investigate my mistakes or omissions further. That would sure be a lovely improvement of the contribution process, yeah.
 Last edited: by T!M
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4  Previous   Next