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Common name for Carlos Delarios/DeLarios/De Larios/de Larios/deLarios, etc
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMikaLove
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Registered: May 2, 2009
Posts: 362
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This guy has seriously bugged me lately, with numerous contributions having to be redone, because of a few complaints.
The most recent being "why" there's a need for a change DeLarios-->Delarios.
So I thought maybe this guy needs a common name topic.

Links:
http://www.sonypicturespost.com/companyinfo/bios/delarios.html
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0216467/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Delarios
http://tv.yahoo.com/carlos-delarios/contributor/325381
http://explore.bfi.org.uk/4ce2baf85eac3

Some titles to get things started:

Carlos de Larios 5 confirmed
Basic Instinct
Big Alligator River
Bottle Rocket
Monkey Shines
Throw Momma from the Train

Carlos De Larios 3 confirmed
My Girl
The Rock
WarGames

Carlos DeLarios 11 confirmed
Dead Poets Society
The Fan
Godzilla 2000
Jesse Stone: Death in Paradise
Jesse Stone: Night Passage
Life Without Dick
Lost In Yonkers
Management
Poltergeist 2
Robocop
Stone Cold

Carlos Delarios 7 confirmed
Call Me Claus
Eulogy
Grandma's Boy
Out of Order
Queens Logic
Son of the Pink Panther
Total Recall

Carlos deLarios 2 confirmed
The Presidio
Running Scared

I'm really not in the mood right now to go through the CLT for all the titles, because I've been looking into this guy so much the last days and the weekend. So either I will check the CLT later, or some other kind soul can look into it. I need some R&R!
 Last edited: by MikaLove
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Carlos de Larios
Bottle Rocket

Carlos De Larios
The Rock

Carlos DeLarios
Dead Poets Society
Jesse Stone: Death in Paradise
Jesse Stone: Night Passage
Life Without Dick
Lost In Yonkers
Management
Stone Cold

Carlos Delarios
Call Me Claus
Eulogy
Grandma's Boy
Out of Order
Queens Logic
Son of the Pink Panther

Carlos deLarios
The Presidio
Running Scared
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Per Ken capitalization don't matter.

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
All points covered by others above, but to reiterate:
The CLT is not case-sensitive.  Also, DVD Profiler will not change the case of a cast member when accepting an update.  It does all cast member comparisons without case sensitivity as well.  It's also not possible to submit a contribution with a "Credited As" entry that varies only in case.

With all that being the case (no pun intended), there should be no reason to change your local case to match, for standard deviations such as "De Nero" or "de Nero".

The case-based ping-ponging can occur, but it amounts to nothing as the changes are not downloaded for those that already have that actor.

By the way, kudos to all on a polite, productive discussion!


so...

Quote:
Carlos de Larios
Basic Instinct
Throw Momma from the Train

Carlos De Larios
My Girl
WarGames


Would be considered a single credit.

and...

Quote:
Carlos DeLarios
Robocop

Carlos Delarios
Total Recall


Would be considered a single credit.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
The case-based ping-ponging can occur, but it amounts to nothing as the changes are not downloaded for those that already have that actor.

I'm well aware that it all "amounts to nothing", but like MikaLove, I'm still interested whether this guy is mostly credited as "DeLarios" or "Delarios". Like any other common name choice, I'd like this common name to be based on actual credits too, rather than just a guess.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMikaLove
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Registered: May 2, 2009
Posts: 362
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Addicted2DVD:
Noted... But I see it as a flaw.
It's to me the same as with "Von" and all those thinkable variants.
There has IMO to be a standard for each name. I don't think it's OK to leave out som types of names because "the CLT isn't case-sensitive". (Then make it case-sensitive, Ken...!)
If the CLT doesn't care about capital letters or not, doesn't mean we should too.

So if Carlos DeLarios is credited most often like that, and not as Carlos Delarios, it should be correct in the database. It still matters in our own local databases, as changes are made or not made when you accept a contribution.

Further, I would even welcome the introduction of a CLT that differs between BY's. So if you search for a name that several people have, but with different BY's, it would separate those names.
As it is now, the CLT feels obsolete and inefficient.

Also, all Ken is saying is that the CLT isn't case-sensitive. But the database in itself actually is...! So it sounds to me like a contradiction and it's therefor not a great argument to ignore capitals or no capitals. Surely, there are some people who don't care about this at all, but we are trying to get our database intact as close to 100% as possible.
Or I don't think Danny Devito would like his name to be written like that or Max Vonsydow would like to see his name like that in the credits list. Hypothetically.
 Last edited: by MikaLove
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
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That is fine... but what I was trying to get at... for the online database we would add those name together to get the true common name. When you get them corrected (with or without the space) in the online the CLT is going to list these names together so for example... what you provided...

Quote:
Carlos de Larios
Bottle Rocket

Carlos De Larios
The Rock

Carlos DeLarios
Dead Poets Society
Jesse Stone: Death in Paradise
Jesse Stone: Night Passage
Life Without Dick
Lost In Yonkers
Management
Stone Cold

Carlos Delarios
Call Me Claus
Eulogy
Grandma's Boy
Out of Order
Queens Logic
Son of the Pink Panther

Carlos deLarios
The Presidio
Running Scared


... for our purposes of correcting the online and putting the info into the CLT... the results would be..

Carlos de Larios/Carlos De Larios (2)
Carlos DeLarios/Carlos Delarios/Carlos deLarios/Carlos Delarios (15)

...is what we need to know.

I was trying to make sure MikaLove was aware of that and not to attempt to pit Carlos deLarios against Carlos Delarios.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
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Quoting MikaLove:
Quote:
Addicted2DVD:
Noted... But I see it as a flaw.
It's to me the same as with "Von" and all those thinkable variants.
There has IMO to be a standard for each name. I don't think it's OK to leave out som types of names because "the CLT isn't case-sensitive". (Then make it case-sensitive, Ken...!)
If the CLT doesn't care about capital letters or not, doesn't mean we should too.

So if Carlos DeLarios is credited most often like that, and not as Carlos Delarios, it should be correct in the database. It still matters in our own local databases, as changes are made or not made when you accept a contribution.

Further, I would even welcome the introduction of a CLT that differs between BY's. So if you search for a name that several people have, but with different BY's, it would separate those names.
As it is now, the CLT feels obsolete and inefficient.


Did you even read what I quoted Ken posted? It does not change your local. Your local keeps the capitalization that is in your local only.

Especially note the quote T!M posted...

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
The case-based ping-ponging can occur, but it amounts to nothing as the changes are not downloaded for those that already have that actor.


Right then Ken himself tells you it does not effect your local. Once you set the local as you want it... it will not change.

So personally... I for one... when working on threads like this will not even bother to take notice which particular capitalization is used for each title... nor should I have to. Not to mention in my experience many of the times the names will be in all caps and you won't be able to tell anyway.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMikaLove
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Registered: May 2, 2009
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Addicted2DVD:
I am aware of that. And that is actually what I'm getting at too. That the CLT is dated and rather hopeless to use, at times. Because it mixes variants of names, just because it doesn't care about capitals or not capitals.

If I search for Carlos Delarios, I only want to find that variant, and not Carlos DeLarios.
Nor if I search for Michael Douglas with BY 1944, I want to find the other one with unknown BY. But that might be another discussion. In this case I'll say it again; Ken might have some arguments about this, but it seems to me he is defending a system, with a rather serious flaw that is contra-productive as well.
The CLT should most definitely separate all name variants, and not just some.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributoriPatsa
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It might be a flaw in your opinion, but that doesn't change the fact that's how it works so any discussion about common names must start there. Not with some hypophetical future system.
Patrik
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
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But what you are missing is that is the way Ken designed it to work. That is the way he wants it to work.

And if you are aware of that why did you post...

Quoting MikaLove:
Quote:
It still matters in our own local databases, as changes are made or not made when you accept a contribution.


Maybe I am misunderstanding you... but that sounds like you expect the online to change the capitalization. Which it doesn't. If that isn't what you meant then I am at a lost at what you did mean by that sentence.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMikaLove
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Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
But what you are missing is that is the way Ken designed it to work. That is the way he wants it to work.

And if you are aware of that why did you post...

Quoting MikaLove:
Quote:
It still matters in our own local databases, as changes are made or not made when you accept a contribution.


Maybe I am misunderstanding you... but that sounds like you expect the online to change the capitalization. Which it doesn't. If that isn't what you meant then I am at a lost at what you did mean by that sentence.

Let's not have the discussion again about what Ken wants and what maybe "we want". Even if I for myself want it to be 100% intact, although I can see difficulties when some (not all) cast lists are all in capitals. Making it impossible to see if it's Carlos Delarios, Carlos DeLarios or Carlos DeLaRiOs...

I think I'm just asking myself the question; what kind of integrity do I want the DB to have? There are quite a few "definitives" about how to write a certain name. I for example wanted to erroneously change Jan De Bont into Jan de Bont, but was told I was wrong.
So again, this is not only about what ONE person wants and is asking for, but several.

Let's just make it simple and contribute the titles for this guy in our collections so we can sort it out. I don't see any reason for this specific topic to get out of hand immediately just because some like to debate a lot.

If I would debate, I would say it's very important for me to know if it is DeLarios or Delarios. Because it stings in my eyes and gives me a headache when some people care about other types of names where only capital or not is the only difference.

All I said is that I'm painfully aware of that the CLT doesn't care about capitals, but I don't agree with it. I wrote that because I'd prefer a change. Some people want change, others don't.
 Last edited: by MikaLove
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
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And my whole point of posting here in the first place... is to point out (in case you didn't already know)... for contributing to the online database that both Delarios and DeLarios are counted together when searching for the common name that is used for contributing.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMikaLove
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Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
And my whole point of posting here in the first place... is to point out (in case you didn't already know)... for contributing to the online database that both Delarios and DeLarios are counted together when searching for the common name that is used for contributing.

Yes, I know that, and while I see your point, and even what Ken means, I still think it's actually kind of irrelevant. Because the attitude is that apples are being compared to pears, when IMO it's the same thing when people complain about von/Von, or de/De.
If it was irrelevant, people wouldn't care about these changes at all and you could even mess with the database and make ridiculous contributions.

It seems also to me that the CLT works the way it does because maybe Ken wanted it to be easier to find people there, if you don't know the variants? But that is expecting that people might be lazy.
At least it could suggest which variant you were looking for. However maybe I'm all wrong and what it all boils down to is that some credits lists are all in capitals "anyway". But that does still not mean that it's impossible to figure out a common name.

Theoretically, we could shun every person then for asking about common names, not just in this case. That is my point. Either something matters or it doesn't. And in this community, I have certainly learned that a lot of things matter. It seems so inconsistent that all of a sudden, one thing doesn't matter at all, because of an explanation how the CLT works...
The debate here is futile, if you look at it this way, that in the DB, it does matter. Because there, the program asks if I want to contribute my changed profile if I change DeLarios to Delarios. What's that about? A serious programming error from Ken?

Now, let's get on with finding out the "truth" here... DeLarios or Delarios.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorbigdaddyhorse
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Big Alligator River - Carlos de Larios (for Creature Design? I did the audit so I know it said that, could be a different person but what are the odds?)

The Fan - Carlos DeLarios - rerecording mixer

Godzilla 2000 - Carlos DeLarios - rerecording mixer

Monkey Shines - Carlos de Larios - rerecording mixer

Poltergeist 2 - Carlos DeLarios - rerecording mixer

FWIW, I have DeLarios as common as it won the most titles I have (5/8) and clt also, but my Total Recall dvd is with upper case L, not lower.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
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Quoting MikaLove:
Quote:
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
And my whole point of posting here in the first place... is to point out (in case you didn't already know)... for contributing to the online database that both Delarios and DeLarios are counted together when searching for the common name that is used for contributing.

Yes, I know that, and while I see your point, and even what Ken means, I still think it's actually kind of irrelevant. Because the attitude is that apples are being compared to pears, when IMO it's the same thing when people complain about von/Von, or de/De.
If it was irrelevant, people wouldn't care about these changes at all and you could even mess with the database and make ridiculous contributions.

It seems also to me that the CLT works the way it does because maybe Ken wanted it to be easier to find people there, if you don't know the variants? But that is expecting that people might be lazy.
At least it could suggest which variant you were looking for. However maybe I'm all wrong and what it all boils down to is that some credits lists are all in capitals "anyway". But that does still not mean that it's impossible to figure out a common name.

Theoretically, we could shun every person then for asking about common names, not just in this case. That is my point. Either something matters or it doesn't. And in this community, I have certainly learned that a lot of things matter. It seems so inconsistent that all of a sudden, one thing doesn't matter at all, because of an explanation how the CLT works...
The debate here is futile, if you look at it this way, that in the DB, it does matter. Because there, the program asks if I want to contribute my changed profile if I change DeLarios to Delarios. What's that about? A serious programming error from Ken?

Now, let's get on with finding out the "truth" here... DeLarios or Delarios.


Actually the reason I say it don't matter is because Ken himself says it don't matter. Because as he said in his own words... it amounts to nothing.

Quoting Ken Cole:

Quote:
The case-based ping-ponging can occur, but it amounts to nothing as the changes are not downloaded for those that already have that actor.


And no... it is not a serious programming error that it asks if you want to contribute after every change you make. I would expect it to.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorateo357
Registered: December 27, 2009
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It wouldn't work if you had 10 De Larios, 4 de Larios = (14) deLarios 6, DeLarios 6, Delarios 6 = (18)

Your way puts De Larios as the common name with 10. But CLT would have the variations of DeLarios the common name with 18. Because the other variations only add up to 14 even though 1 has a greater number than the others.
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