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Box + 1 volume sets
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwhispering
On ne passe pas!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 1,376
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Quoting dvdoug:
Quote:
Just thought I'd let you non-native speakers know that English uses 'series' for both singular and plural - that is: a series/many series, not a serie/many series. It's a funny word like that.


learn something new everyday

Quoting Kinematics:
Quote:
All right, then I guess the last question to clear up would be, what labels do you use on the Edition field to distinguish between the boxes:  box w/single volume (usually vol 1), box with entire series, box with thinpacks (discs added by disc ID) and empty box?


I use what it says on the cover, e.g. with Box+Vol 1's
Vandread: Special Collector's Box (this is used a lot with Pioneer/Geneon DVD's)
Haibane-Renmei: Limited Edition Box (this is used a lot with Bandai DVD's)
ADV seems to use just the Special/Limited Edition.

For complete collections it states that its the whole serie. Thinpacks dont have any special labels as far as i know.

Quoting Kinematics:
Quote:
Oh, one other last question: Put the fact that volume 1 comes with the box in the "other features" field?


I used to do this. From the top of my head, on the Haibane-Renmei it lists the first volume as "Box Set Content". On Ai Yori Aoshi Enishi it says "Includes:". Thought it would be good to add it to the extras field, eventhough there is the child profile.
 Last edited: by whispering
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Quoting whispering:
Quote:
Quoting dvdoug:
Quote:
Just thought I'd let you non-native speakers know that English uses 'series' for both singular and plural - that is: a series/many series, not a serie/many series. It's a funny word like that.


learn something new everyday

Quoting Kinematics:
Quote:
All right, then I guess the last question to clear up would be, what labels do you use on the Edition field to distinguish between the boxes:  box w/single volume (usually vol 1), box with entire series, box with thinpacks (discs added by disc ID) and empty box?


I use what it says on the cover, e.g. with Box+Vol 1's
Vandread: Special Collector's Box (this is used a lot with Pioneer/Geneon DVD's)
Haibane-Renmei: Limited Edition Box (this is used a lot with Bandai DVD's)
ADV seems to use just the Special/Limited Edition.

For complete collections it states that its the whole serie. Thinpacks dont have any special labels as far as i know.



A thinpack is just a bulimic keep case! 
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwhispering
On ne passe pas!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 1,376
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What do you people think about running time? ...and Studios (only distributor or same as on the childs)?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKinematics
Registered: March 16, 2007
United States Posts: 280
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I think that will somewhat depend on how the discussion on child profiles for TV series turns out.  If the concensus is that child profile data be replicated at the box set level, then use all studios.  If not, then only the distributor should be on the studios.  For running time, if child data is not replicated then it should be the total running time for whichever DVDs come in the box when purchased.  (If it's only volume 1, then just volume 1's running time.)  If child data is replicated, then use the full series running time.

Of course I just realized that -that- assumes that replicating child data would include all discs for the series.  That actually gets back to the original poll question.

So, going back to the poll, if the people voting for 'other' are agreeing with my original description, it's clear that the support is for having the base profile for the box, not the disc.  Of those voting for that specific subset, all of them seem to want info from the entire series provided.

So, rebuilding from the base poll questions, you can have:

Profile with no data replication: Extras include volumes that come with the box (if less than all volumes), as well as box-only extras.  Distributor as only studio.  Run time set appropriate to however many discs come with purchase.  No cast/crew.

Profile with restricted data replication: Extras include volumes that come with the box (if less than all volumes), as well as box-only extras.  Full studio listing.  Run time set appropriate to however many discs come with purchase (variant: put full series length here).  Cast/crew of discs provided at purchase are replicated.

Profile with full data replication:  Extras include volumes that come with the box (if less than all volumes), as well as box-only extras.  Full studio listing.  Run time set to full series length.  Cast/crew of all discs added to box profile.


In no case do I think copying extras from the entire series is appropriate, especially since the Other Features field is still pretty tiny (there's still plenty of times it won't even hold the other extras from a single disc).

If full replication is used, then when a complete box set or thinpak is released, it's easy enough to just duplicate the profile and make minor adjustments, but more work to keep updated as new volumes come out.  If partial replication is used, that adds to the work needed when making new box set profiles, but you don't have to change the profile based on other releases down the line.  If no replication is used, it's again easy to duplicate, and no extra work required as new volumes come out, but less useful to those who want the box set only and not the child profiles.

Thus it's mainly a compromise between work needed to keep it updated and how much info it provides as a standalone profile.  Probably need another poll to refine the results.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKinematics
Registered: March 16, 2007
United States Posts: 280
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whispering, do you think a more specific poll is needed in this case, or is there enough input to decide on how to handle it?  Or is this entire issue on hold?  Now that I've got most of my collection re-uploaded, I'd like to start work on cleaning up some of the specifics, and this issue is one of the hold-ups.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwhispering
On ne passe pas!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 1,376
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Quoting Kinematics:
Quote:
whispering, do you think a more specific poll is needed in this case, or is there enough input to decide on how to handle it?  Or is this entire issue on hold?  Now that I've got most of my collection re-uploaded, I'd like to start work on cleaning up some of the specifics, and this issue is one of the hold-ups.


Still waiting for awhile if anyone wants to give their 2 cents. After that i'll make another, more specific poll.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorBlueloopstah
Registered: March 18, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 55
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In my opinion a box + vol x should be treated exactly the same as a DVD that comes in a shop exclusive or limited edition slipcase or tin, as all the box is is a fancy case cover that just happens to be big enough to fit some more DVDs in.

Title- from box
Scans- from box
Info- from DVD inside box (same as for a slipcover or tin) this is a DVD profiler after all.
Extras- T-shirts, CDs, manga etc.

Buying the box + vol x is in no way at all related to whether or not you purchase the other DVDs of the same series and decide to place them in the convenient space available within the box.

Just because it comes with a box does not make it a boxset.
 Last edited: by Blueloopstah
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Blueloopstah:
Quote:
In my opinion a box + vol x should be treated exactly the same as a DVD that comes in a shop exclusive or limited edition slipcase or tin, as all the box is is a fancy case cover that just happens to be big enough to fit some more DVDs in.

Title- from box
Scans- from box
Info- from DVD inside box (same as for a slipcover or tin) this is a DVD profiler after all.
Extras- T-shirts, CDs, manga etc.

Buying the box + vol x is in no way at all related to whether or not you purchase the other DVDs of the same series and decide to place them in the convenient space available within the box.

Just because it comes with a box does not make it a boxset.



Here we go again; reinventing the wheel! 
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
Remus
Registered: March 23, 2007
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not all anime vol with box comes with the 1st volume, nor the last volumne... adv is now doing it with the 2nd volumne.

if you do the child profiles.... they titles will all be out of order.

also not all dvds that are released with the series box has a upc code... FLCL vol 3 with box and Full Metal Panic 1 with Box, their DVD Covers do NOT have a UPC Code.  To say they are the same content wise is true... however they do not use the same UPC codes as the single version.

The box that is used with these releases may not be the final version that is used to collect the series.  This is for the regular dvd cases... how some studios are going with the thinpaks when the do the full collection.  Also even if they do use the same "box" they will issue a new UPC Code for that collection.

To me its a question of am I using dvd profiler to track my dvds and what I buy... or to track the boxes and extras that come with my dvds?

Take My-Hime from Bandai Entertainment... they issued vol 1 with box which I bought... now vol 7 will have a new box... which I will also buy.  Yeah I am gonna trash the box with vol 1.  Now how will this be listed?  Since I am gonna toss the vol 1 box... do I list the "box" on dvd profiler even thou the box will be gone? Yes cause I paid for vol 1 with box.  Same can be said of RahXephon from ADV.  Box with vol 1 and a new series box with the LE movie.

Lets get back to what DVD Profiler was made to do and that is track our DVDs.  If you want to list the box name instead of the DVD volume it came with... thats ok but keep it local for your own preference.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Remus:
Quote:
not all anime vol with box comes with the 1st volume, nor the last volumne... adv is now doing it with the 2nd volumne.

if you do the child profiles.... they titles will all be out of order.

also not all dvds that are released with the series box has a upc code... FLCL vol 3 with box and Full Metal Panic 1 with Box, their DVD Covers do NOT have a UPC Code.  To say they are the same content wise is true... however they do not use the same UPC codes as the single version.

The box that is used with these releases may not be the final version that is used to collect the series.  This is for the regular dvd cases... how some studios are going with the thinpaks when the do the full collection.  Also even if they do use the same "box" they will issue a new UPC Code for that collection.

To me its a question of am I using dvd profiler to track my dvds and what I buy... or to track the boxes and extras that come with my dvds?

Take My-Hime from Bandai Entertainment... they issued vol 1 with box which I bought... now vol 7 will have a new box... which I will also buy.  Yeah I am gonna trash the box with vol 1.  Now how will this be listed?  Since I am gonna toss the vol 1 box... do I list the "box" on dvd profiler even thou the box will be gone? Yes cause I paid for vol 1 with box.  Same can be said of RahXephon from ADV.  Box with vol 1 and a new series box with the LE movie.

Lets get back to what DVD Profiler was made to do and that is track our DVDs.  If you want to list the box name instead of the DVD volume it came with... thats ok but keep it local for your own preference.



Doesn't matter if they sell a subsequent disc with a new box or not.  If the UPC is the same on the two boxes, then you have to go with the original one.  No different than when they issue a movie in a keep case with new art work but the same UPC.  The original art prevails online.

Also, it doesn't matter what order you attach child profiles to the master in the boxset button.  The program tracks them in ID order.  You should use the Sort Title field to ensure that they display in the proper order.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKinematics
Registered: March 16, 2007
United States Posts: 280
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Quoting Blueloopstah:
Quote:
In my opinion a box + vol x should be treated exactly the same as a DVD that comes in a shop exclusive or limited edition slipcase or tin, as all the box is is a fancy case cover that just happens to be big enough to fit some more DVDs in.


Well, that's all a boxset really is, isn't it?  Whether it comes full or not, it's just a fancy case cover holding a bunch of DVDs together.

Quote:
Buying the box + vol x is in no way at all related to whether or not you purchase the other DVDs of the same series and decide to place them in the convenient space available within the box.


And it doesn't need to be.  Apparently (per Ken) there's a hidden lock effect on Boxset Contents that goes into place after you first download a profile.  So you can download the box profile and vol 1, and (if that's set as the only boxset contents) if you never get any of the other discs and add them yourself, you should never have to worry about them showing up in the box profile.  However, if you do, then you have a proper container profile to add them to, instead of adding them as children of volume 1.

Quoting Remus:
Quote:
also not all dvds that are released with the series box has a upc code... FLCL vol 3 with box and Full Metal Panic 1 with Box, their DVD Covers do NOT have a UPC Code.  To say they are the same content wise is true... however they do not use the same UPC codes as the single version.


This I can see as being a potential problem.  I just checked FLCL, and you're correct there; the cover on vol. 3 doesn't include the UPC.  You 'could': add the disc ID; if it's the same as the disc ID for the standalone vol 3 entry, then using the standalone should be fine (optional); otherwise add an entry by disc ID.  Since this appears to be a pretty rare case it probably won't cause too many problems. 

Quote:
The box that is used with these releases may not be the final version that is used to collect the series.  This is for the regular dvd cases... how some studios are going with the thinpaks when the do the full collection.  Also even if they do use the same "box" they will issue a new UPC Code for that collection.


Rifter is correct with the subsequent box sale.  If it's the same UPC, nothing changes.  Frankly, it shouldn't be the same UPC since it's a different product being sold, and needs to be distinguished at the checkout counter.  In that case, it's just a different top-level box.  You're free to use either of them to hold the boxset content profiles.

Likewise, thinpak boxes are under yet another UPC entry, and probably should have their contents added by disc ID. Many thinpaks use the same discs as the original case sales, but not all. For example, the discs in the Azumanga Daioh thinpak box are not the same as the discs that came in the keepcases; they had their extras removed.  In any case, those are separate from the whole box+1 issue we're trying to resolve.

Quote:
To me its a question of am I using dvd profiler to track my dvds and what I buy... or to track the boxes and extras that come with my dvds?


Um.... Both?

Quote:
Take My-Hime from Bandai Entertainment... they issued vol 1 with box which I bought... now vol 7 will have a new box... which I will also buy.  Yeah I am gonna trash the box with vol 1.  Now how will this be listed?  Since I am gonna toss the vol 1 box... do I list the "box" on dvd profiler even thou the box will be gone? Yes cause I paid for vol 1 with box.


Ok, using the current 'system', you'd have a vol 1 w/box entry and a vol 7 w/box entry.  If you wanted to group the volumes in a set, you'd either have vols 2-7 underneath vol 1, or vols 1-6 underneath vol 7 (most likely the latter, if you're using that box).  Under a 'boxset' system, you'd have the initial box, the new box, and vols 1-7 all as separate profiles, and if you wanted to keep them grouped as a set, would have vols 1-7 underneath the box of your choice.

Personally, I think the latter option is better, but I'm not quite sure what your specific objection on this point is.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registranttas314
Registered: March 24, 2007
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A profile should match what you bought. It should not have other items that you MIGHT buy linked to it.

Since there are a few examples of boxes that came with more then one disc I think it's best to go with a profile for the box, and daughter(s) for the discs that came in the box. It's better to have one system that works for all examples then a bunch of exceptions.

Daughter profiles should use Disc ID. Even if it's the same as the single version with the same UPC it's not the same product. The single has a non-zero SRP, the daughter profile should have a SRP of zero.  Just sticking the single into the box profile will result in the profile containing wrong data. You can take the single profile, change the UPC to disc ID, zero the SRP and resubmit to save work.

The boxset contents should be locked. Items that are sold as separate items should not be added to the online database. If you want to put them into the box as you buy them fine, but keep it local.

Reasons not to add other discs to the box profile include.

1- Not everyone buys the discs at the same time, some people may wait for sales, others my drop a series half way (I gave up on Noir after volume 3) so the online profile would not match what people have if later discs are added. Right now having something in the box set field will not do anything but...

2- Future changes to Box set handling to make "real" box sets work better.
- Auto add box set daughter profiles when adding a box set.
- Hide/Block/Remove data that should not be in a "real" box set daughter profile.
    * SRP
    * Price paid
    * release date
    * Purchase date
Tom.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorBlueloopstah
Registered: March 18, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 55
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Quoting Kinematics:
Quote:

Well, that's all a boxset really is, isn't it?  Whether it comes full or not, it's just a fancy case cover holding a bunch of DVDs together.


You're talking about the casetype: boxset I'm talking about the profile type: boxset.

Quoting Contribution Rules:
Quote:

The term "Box Set" is used to define any release that includes more than one film


A box set is something that when bought contains more than one movie (or in the case of anime that would be volume). As a box + volume x does not contain more than one movie (or volume) it is in no way a box set and shouldn't be treated as one.

Changed my vote as I realised that
"Profile for the volume inside - box is added to the extras field - covers from box" fitted my opinion better than my preivous vote.
 Last edited: by Blueloopstah
Remus
Registered: March 23, 2007
Posts: 2
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There is also the issue that folks all flag the vol X with Box as Boxsets... they are not box sets... they are in a regular dvd keepcase and the series box is an extra.

if I buy vol x with series box... i am not buying a boxset.  i have to buy additional volumes to fill the box.

also when i add vol x with box... it shows all the "child" profiles folks are adding to em...

I am sorry but buying this release doesnt give me those additional dvds.

you want to track a boxset release then do so... but when the company solicits these dvds... its title name vol. # for regular and its title name vol. # then LE or SE for the version with the series box.

they dont put the "box" title as the release name.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registranttas314
Registered: March 24, 2007
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Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
It's sort of like the coin sets you can buy.  For $19.95 you get the fancy presentation folder and the first coin, and then you have to buy each individual coin for the rest of the thing as they are issued.  You certainly wouldn't put the additional coins in some other folder just because you didn't buy them right up front.

Where you store the coin/DVD has nothing to do with the original purchase. You can't go back in time and change things.

Just because you have bought the next volume in the series you can't assume that everyone has. If you add it to the box set field of the volume+box profile and upload it to the online DB then that data will not be valid for some users.

The box set data should be locked after the original box profile is created. Then when you buy another volume you can add it local if you want. After all you want it to reflect what YOU have, not what some other user has, and I don't care what volumes you have, so that data should not be in the online database.  Keep it local since it's only sure to be valid locally.
Tom.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registranttas314
Registered: March 24, 2007
Canada Posts: 240
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Quoting Remus:
Quote:


you want to track a boxset release then do so... but when the company solicits these dvds... its title name vol. # for regular and its title name vol. # then LE or SE for the version with the series box.

they dont put the "box" title as the release name.


Not true.
If you go to ADV's web site and look under "now available" you will see...
Utawarerumono Volume 2: In The Face of Evil
Utawarerumono Volume 2 + Box
This is more or less standard, and it's what you will see in catalogues and at online stores.  When you look at the actual box no, Box is not in the title as a rule (there are exceptions) because it's bleeding obvious that it's a box.

Take the second Kodocha box.
All four sides of the box just say Kodocha. There is a small "2" on the bottom.
A sticker on the shrink wrap said...
Babbit Box II Includes:
Volume 7 * Adult Sized Secrets
Volume 8 * Sana's Duty

So what would the title for this be?
Kodocha
Kodocha 2
Babbit Box II
Kodacha Volumes 7-8 with box

I have this one local since I was not sure what to do with it.
Tom.
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