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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2  Previous   Next
Genre Question: Music vs. Musical
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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This is something I thought I had a handle on until I downloaded a profile that looked wrong to me... then I filtered on the genre to see a lot that seemed wrong to me. But then again this is not my best subject matter so I thought maybe there was something I wasn't taken into consideration. So figured I better ask before changing a bunch of profiles.

The way I always thought was...

Music: Concert discs and such
Musicals: Films with lots of singing and dancing... a lot of times coming out of no where.

Here is a list of films in my collection listed as Music that I thought would be Musicals. Any and all help on this subject would be appreciated.


Dirty Dancing



Moulin Rouge!



Walk the Line



The Blues Brothers



Blues Brothers 2000



Ray



The Blues Brothers Double Feature



American Dreamz



A Mighty Wind



Footloose



The Wedding Singer



Sister Act 2: Back in the Habit

Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Note that some of these I not seen in a long time... a couple never seen. So if there is something else I am not taking into consideration they may be right.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
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I don't believe I would categorize a work of fiction as "Music".

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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributoriPatsa
Zzzzzzz
Registered: March 13, 2007
Sweden Posts: 2,938
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I tend to categorize films about music artists and/or the music industry (both fictional and documentary) as part of the "Music" genre, but like most of my genres this is based on my subjective opinions which I don't ask anyone else to share.
Patrik
 Last edited: by iPatsa
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Registered: May 19, 2007
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From my point of view most of these release don't qualify for the music genre, some are musical as Dirty Dancing or Footloose, but most of them are either comedy (like the Blues Brothers or Sister Act movies) drama or documentary drama (like Ray or Walk the Line).
I don't think a films with a screenplay should be categorized as music. Maybe some - very few - exceptions, where the line between musical and film is not drawn: Tommy or The Wall, where I won't know if I'd categorize them musical or drama, music...
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributormreeder50
I was out of bullets
Registered: March 29, 2007
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I can't speak for American Dreamz.

The only one of these I see as a musical is Moulin Rouge. My 2 pennies.
Marty - Registered July 10, 2004, User since 2002.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantnuoyaxin
prev. known as ya_shin
Registered: March 13, 2007
Taiwan, Province of China Posts: 3,365
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Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
The way I always thought was...

Music: Concert discs and such
Musicals: Films with lots of singing and dancing... a lot of times coming out of no where.


I basically agree with those definitions, although other opinions are probably available and the lines are occasionally blurred.

I think one factor for a Musical is, that he songs are plot related, almost replacing dialog for 5 minutes. So, things like Blues Brothers are not Musical (although Music could be argued here) and neither is Dirty Dancing (to my knowledge, I have never seen it).

So, if it was me, I would classify as follows:

Dirty Dancing neither
Moulin Rouge! Musical
Walk the Line maybe Music, nit Musical
The Blues Brothers not Musical, but maybe Music
Blues Brothers 2000 not Musical, but maybe Music
Ray Music
The Blues Brothers Double Feature not Musical, but maybe Music
American Dreamz don't know about this one
A Mighty Wind don't know about this one
Footloose neither
The Wedding Singer neither (just a guy singing at weddings doesn't make a Musical)
Sister Act 2: Back in the Habit: don't know about this one
Achim [Ya-Shin//Nuo]
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative)
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting nuoyaxin:
Quote:
I think one factor for a Musical is, that he songs are plot related, almost replacing dialog for 5 minutes. So, things like Blues Brothers are not Musical (although Music could be argued here) and neither is Dirty Dancing (to my knowledge, I have never seen it).

So, if it was me, I would classify as follows:

Dirty Dancing neither
Moulin Rouge! Musical
Walk the Line maybe Music, nit Musical
The Blues Brothers not Musical, but maybe Music
Blues Brothers 2000 not Musical, but maybe Music
Ray Music
The Blues Brothers Double Feature not Musical, but maybe Music
American Dreamz don't know about this one
A Mighty Wind don't know about this one
Footloose neither
The Wedding Singer neither (just a guy singing at weddings doesn't make a Musical)
Sister Act 2: Back in the Habit: don't know about this one

I agree with all of this, though I will add that Sister Act 2 is similar to The Wedding Singer.  The movie is about a choir and the singing is them performing, not replacing dialogue.
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 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDanae Cassandra
Mad Scientist at work!
Registered: May 26, 2007
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For what it’s worth, Wikipedia gives the description of a musical thus:
Quote:
The musical film is a film genre in which songs sung by the characters are interwoven into the narrative, sometimes accompanied by dancing.

The songs usually advance the plot or develop the film's characters, though in some cases they serve merely as breaks in the storyline, often as elaborate "production numbers".


Wiki also lists biopics of musicians, including Ray & Walk the Line as musicals
If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.
-- Thorin Oakenshield
 Last edited: by Danae Cassandra
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAce_of_Sevens
Registered: December 10, 2007
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Agreed with the people who say stories about musicians and them singing as part of what are considered performances in narrative should have the music genre. Musicals using singing in places where it wouldn't make sense in real life.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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For a brief moment there I forgot how subjective genres are. Think I will just decide for myself and just save it locally... not worry about the online.
Pete
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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Musicals are stories (stage, film) that are told partly or completely in song. When Mary Poppins explains to the children that "a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down", that's a musical.



Blues Brothers, Dirty Dancing, Sister Act and Walk the Line are not. They are movies about music but the story is not told in the form of songs.

That does not mean that the songs need to be specifically written for the movie. Rock of Ages is a musical because the songs were deliberately chosen to tell the story.

One of the questions you could ask yourself to make this distinction is: Did it have to be that exact song in that scene or could it have been another. Does the song further the narrative of the movie? When you look at Blues Brothers, you'll see that it didn't have to be "Rawhide" or "Stand By Your Man" in the country bar, any country (or western ) song would have sufficed.

Karsten
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 Last edited: by DJ Doena
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorEagle
Registered: Oct 31, 2001
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
Quote:
Quoting nuoyaxin:
Quote:
I think one factor for a Musical is, that he songs are plot related, almost replacing dialog for 5 minutes. So, things like Blues Brothers are not Musical (although Music could be argued here) and neither is Dirty Dancing (to my knowledge, I have never seen it).

So, if it was me, I would classify as follows:

Dirty Dancing neither
Moulin Rouge! Musical
Walk the Line maybe Music, nit Musical
The Blues Brothers not Musical, but maybe Music
Blues Brothers 2000 not Musical, but maybe Music
Ray Music
The Blues Brothers Double Feature not Musical, but maybe Music
American Dreamz don't know about this one
A Mighty Wind don't know about this one
Footloose neither
The Wedding Singer neither (just a guy singing at weddings doesn't make a Musical)
Sister Act 2: Back in the Habit: don't know about this one

I agree with all of this, though I will add that Sister Act 2 is similar to The Wedding Singer.  The movie is about a choir and the singing is them performing, not replacing dialogue.

I agree with all of this
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
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OK... just out of dumb curiosity. I watched a movie that lasted an hour and a half. While there is music... there is not a lot. Maybe a total of 3 or 4 songs. 2 Definitely replace dialog... characters just singing out of no where. Then another 1...maybe 2 where they are putting on a show.

Would YOU consider this a musical or no?
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantnuoyaxin
prev. known as ya_shin
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I would say Yes. 3-4 songs within 90 min is "something" and it's apparently used to further the narrative.

But if someone were to argue the "3-4 songs are not enough", I'd have a hard time to convince them otherwise, but then it is all a bit subjective...

Spoiler:  (Select to view)
What's the movie...?
Achim [Ya-Shin//Nuo]
Registered: May 29, 2000 (at InterVocative)
 Last edited: by nuoyaxin
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
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It was an old Marx Brothers film... At the Circus. Funny thing when I downloaded the profile there was no musical or music in the genre for that one. I did add musical to it locally.
Pete
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