Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1... 7 8 9 10  Previous   Next
WARNING: wrong disc id with Windows 10 Update 1809
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 7,788
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
So what's our stance on this, now? It doesn't seem likely that Invelos will fix this anytime soon - probably never. We can't expect each and every user to have seen and this thread, and we also can't expect every user to buy an AnyDVD license. But these Windows-10-Disc ID's are making their way into the database at an alarming rate. Are we still trying to stop that, or should we just give up, and accept that these Disc ID's *will* make their way into the database?

I encountered such a contribution this morning - a contribution that replaces the correct Disc ID with the incorrect Windows 10-readout of the exact same disc. I was able to verify that by turning AnyDVD off and on again. Based on those findings and on this thread, I have voted against this:



I've also sent the user a PM, again pointing him to this thread. Would you say that that's a good way to handle this, or should I just give up, vote "Neutral" and let the Windows 10 Disc ID replace the actual Disc ID? If the consensus is that it's a lost cause, then I'll stop voting against these... But I'd just like be sure on that - are we still trying to weed these Windows 10 Disc ID's out, trying to "educate" users who aren't aware of this yet, or have we just given up, and are we letting those Windows 10 Disc ID's replace the actual Disc ID's?

In short: is my no-vote accurate, or should I just let this go?
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,760
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
a contribution that replaces the correct Disc ID with the incorrect Windows 10-readout of the exact same disc.

Have we determined exactly what the ramifications are? Submitting a new Disc ID is supposed to add that ID to the profile, not replace the old one. But do both IDs then work the same? If they indeed do, then I can't see a problem.
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 7,788
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
But do both IDs then work the same? If they indeed do, then I can't see a problem.

I've tested that extensively, but no, they don't work the same. That's the reason why we're talking about this in the first place - if it simply didn't matter, this thread wouldn't have reached page nine...

If the accurate Disc ID in a profile is overwritten with the Disc ID for that same disc as read out by a recent Windows 10 version, then, even although the contribution rules state: "All Disc IDs are stored in the main database and are used for disc identification within DVD Profiler", DVD Profiler does in fact not recognise the disc by the previously "stored" Disc ID, only by the newly submitted Disc ID. Putting in the disc and asking DVD Profiler to scan the disc will result in this message:



So no, both IDs don't "work the same", unfortunately.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
Battle Troll
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Germany Posts: 6,421
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
If the accurate Disc ID in a profile is overwritten with the Disc ID for that same disc as read out by a recent Windows 10 version, then, even although the contribution rules state: "All Disc IDs are stored in the main database and are used for disc identification within DVD Profiler", DVD Profiler does in fact not recognise the disc by the previously "stored" Disc ID, only by the newly submitted Disc ID. Putting in the disc and asking DVD Profiler to scan the disc will result in this message:



So no, both IDs don't "work the same", unfortunately.


But that does beg the question: Has this ever worked before? Or was it always a "last Disc Id wins" kind of scenario?
Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
Amazon Price Observer

DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 7,788
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting DJ Doena:
Quote:
Has this ever worked before? Or was it always a "last Disc Id wins" kind of scenario?

I don't know how we can establish that retroactively. I can just observe that it doesn't work *now*.

My question remains the same: are we against these Windows 10 Disc ID's, are correcting them when we see them, are we trying to "educate" users who aren't aware of this yet? Or have we instead given up on this, and do we accept that the Disc ID on most DVD profiles will be overwritten with the new version as read out by recent versions of Windows 10? In other words: faced with the contribution I've showed you in the first post on this page, replacing an accurate Disc ID with another one, from the exact same disc but read out by a recent Windows 10 version, should I vote "yes" or "no"?
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorDJ Doena
Battle Troll
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Germany Posts: 6,421
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Here's my personal stance on it: I've never cared about the disc Id section of the profile, so I never filled nor contributed it.

However, I do create new profiles based on the new Windows 10 disc Id because I don't have an AnyDVD license and don't need one for anything else.

I also do contribute the profiles and attach them to season profiles if that season doesn't already have child profiles attached to it.

Because at the end of the day, this disc Id is what we have now and it seems unlikely that we ever get a different solution from either Microsoft or Invelos for this problem.

And for me it's good enough to have a unique Id for a profile where no UPC/EAN is abvailable.
Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
Amazon Price Observer

DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorGreyHulk
Fixin' it for everyone..
Registered: November 24, 2008
Reputation: Highest Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 942
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
In short: is my no-vote accurate, or should I just let this go?

In short: I would always fight this. Until this problem is solved we need to let the people know that it's not helping. I have been letting people know whenever it crops up in my contribution feed. Some were completely unaware and have been taking my AnyDVD offer. Others had simply forgotten.
 Last edited: by GreyHulk
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,760
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M (quoting the rules):
Quote:
"All Disc IDs are stored in the main database and are used for disc identification within DVD Profiler"

So I guess that means that all Disc IDs are stored in the main (online) database, but not all are downloaded to the user's local database. If so, that raises a few questions:

- Do all IDs work for Add by Disc ID? And if so, does one always get the same Disc ID in the profile as the one used for the download?
- What Disc ID does one get when adding by title? The latest?

And finally, is this really that big a problem? If you get the "DVD not recognized" message you can just edit the title and replace the Disc ID. And if you already have a Disc ID, it is locked by default. Or am I missing something?
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
 Last edited: by GSyren
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 7,788
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting GSyren:
Quote:
- Do all IDs work for Add by Disc ID?

I've just tested this with several discs, and to my surprise, neither Disc ID worked for Add by Disc ID for the first couple of discs I tested - not the one currently stored in the profile, and not the one that I know for a fact was stored in that same profile before it. So Add by Disc ID seems totally broken for me as far as DVD's which recently had one of these alternative Disc ID's submitted into it. When I put in a Blu-ray disc, or a DVD which hasn't had its Disc ID updated, Add by Disc ID works fine, but multiple discs of which the profiles (semi-)recently had their Disc ID updated no longer work with Add by Disc ID for me, not even with the Disc ID that's currently stored in its profile. Very messy...

Quote:
- What Disc ID does one get when adding by title? The latest?

The latest one that was submitted/accepted into the profile, indeed.

Quote:
is this really that big a problem?

I *am* running a Windows 10 version which exhibits this behaviour, but I store the Disc ID's of my DVD's with AnyDVD running, and then I lock them. So no, any updates that come down with different Disc ID's don't impact me: as I consistently lock them, they can't be overwritten. That doesn't change the question I was actually asking: should I vote "yes" or "no" to such a contribution? GreyHulk says to "always fight this", while you and Karsten seem to take the opposite stance. So what's the way to go? As always, it would be nice if we'd all be on the same page on this. I can go either way, it won't change what I store in my local database, but I'd just like us to be consistent. If the consensus is to "always fight this", then I'm happy to do that, but if we're just as happy with the Disc ID's as read out by Windows 10, then I'll stop voting against such contributions. That's what I'm asking.
 Last edited: by T!M
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Profiling since 2004
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 5,186
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
For the "main database": I'd assume that disc IDs are handled like any other data. If the data is overwritten by a contribution, it is overwritten - means the overwritten data is lost.
Complete list of Common Names  •  A good point for starting with Headshots
 Last edited: by AiAustria
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorAiAustria
Profiling since 2004
Registered: May 19, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Austria Posts: 5,186
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Looking at the problem from a technical distance, it shows up as: Each and every disc can pop up under two different Disc IDs - one under Windows 10 and another one on any previous version of Windows.
Adding some other facts:
- It is not very likely Invelos will correct this behaviour (provide a workaround)
- since the problem was raised many Windows versions ago, it is not likely neither, that Microsoft will address this issue
- I don't think there is a tendency to downgrade Windows...

This means for me, we - the community - need to find a way to cope with the data problem!

The only way, I could imagine, to keep the functionality, would be to store both Disc IDs in parallel. A new Windows 10 ID in a seperate line (not replacing the existing Win7 ID but adding another line to the discs field), probably marked as "Main Feature W10"...

Tossing around the idea a little bit, a question: is there any need to replace an existing Disc ID at all?
- DiscIDs are read from disc, there can't be typos in it
- Inserting a wrong disc is most unlikely because it would rather complicate profiling it...
Complete list of Common Names  •  A good point for starting with Headshots
 Last edited: by AiAustria
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributormarcelb7
Registered: Oct. 16, 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Netherlands Posts: 676
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
The only way, I could imagine, to keep the functionality, would be to store both Disc IDs in parallel. A new Windows 10 ID in a seperate line (not replacing the existing Win7 ID but adding another line to the discs field), probably marked as "Main Feature W10".

I would not have a problem with that at all. I have AnyDVD installed and I still buy DVDs, so it's no trouble for me to add both.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorT!M
User since 6 Dec. 2000
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Netherlands Posts: 7,788
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting AiAustria:
Quote:
For the "main database": I'd assume that disc IDs are handled like any other data. If the data is overwritten by a contribution, it is overwritten - means the overwritten data is lost.

Although the contribution rules explicitly declare that that isn't the case, that actually may be an accurate assumption. Still, that wouldn't explain why Add by Disc ID appears totally broken for me as far as DVD's which recently had one of these alternative Disc ID's submitted into it. It won't even recognise the disc when confronted with the same Disc ID that's currently stored in the profile.

Quote:
The only way, I could imagine, to keep the functionality, would be to store both Disc IDs in parallel. A new Windows 10 ID in a seperate line (not replacing the existing Win7 ID but adding another line to the discs field), probably marked as "Main Feature W10"...

I'm not immediately a big fan of that idea. Just think of how messy that would get on a 30-disc "Complete Series" TV show box set... And how about Disc ID-based child profiles?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,760
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
neither Disc ID worked for Add by Disc ID for the first couple of discs I tested

Well, that sucks! Now, don't take this the wrong way, T!M, but can someone else also verify that this is the case, so we know it's not just a local hiccup?

Also, going strictly by the rules, voting No is not an option. Submitting an alternative Disc ID is perfectly within the rules, and the rules don't make exceptions for technical issues.

To vote no or not to vote no, that is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrrows of outraged users, or take arms against a sea of DiscIDs and by opposing end them. Ay, there's the rub.
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
 Last edited: by GSyren
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorObiKen
Registered: October 22, 2015
Reputation: High Rating
Australia Posts: 96
Posted:
PM this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
New DVD Disc-ID profiles, created under Win10 v1809 or later, do show up in the "Add DVD by Disc ID" screen.

Tested this by deleting several DVD child Disc ID profiles and successfully adding them back via "Add DVD by Disc ID".
 Last edited: by ObiKen
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWigram
Don't blink!
Registered: June 6, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Canada Posts: 919
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting ObiKen:
Quote:
New DVD Disc-ID profiles, created under Win10 v1809 or later, do show up in the "Add DVD by Disc ID" screen.

Tested this by deleting several DVD child Disc ID profiles and successfully adding them back via "Add DVD by Disc ID".


Are you running AnyDVD? If so, you have to disable it for that to work, No?
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1... 7 8 9 10  Previous   Next