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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next
Cast in old profiles
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWigram
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Registered: June 6, 2007
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Quoting scotthm:
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I vote for option two.  It makes your life easier and no one will ever complain about it.


I agree. Also, wondering which is best for the online database, I would hesitate to remove data which, although undocumented, has not been proven wrong.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting Wigram:
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I would hesitate to remove data which, although undocumented, has not been proven wrong.

Would that be regardless of how incorrect the cast is?

Also, undocumented could mean copied from a copyrighted third party source, which could (in theory, at least) make Invelos the target of a copyright infringement lawsuit. I honestly have a very hard time believing that it could happen, but suing seems to be America's favorite non-contact sport, so who knows?
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
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If Ken was worried about being sued he should probably not allow cast or crew data to be included in initial contributions, where no one is allowed to vote on it.  Also, he should probably stop allowing cast and crew to be copied from existing (often old and IMDB cloned) approved profiles.

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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
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Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
If Ken was worried about being sued he should probably not allow cast or crew data to be included in initial contributions, where no one is allowed to vote on it.  Also, he should probably stop allowing cast and crew to be copied from existing (often old and IMDB cloned) approved profiles.

Well, I'm sure there was a reason why the "no third party data" rule was introduced to begin with.
And you do have to specify the source of your data in the initial contribution, but that probably doesn't help much.
I certainly agree that allowing copying of old profiles w/o any checking is very iffy.
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting GSyren:
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Those are the only two options. I just want to know which one you think is better.

Those are not the only two options.  There is a third option, make your corrections, upload it, then remove the uncredited roles from your local.  It's not an option you want to consider, because it is more work for you, but it is an option.

Don't get me wrong, I do understand not wanting to do the extra work.  I prefer my cast and crew to be formatted in a specific way.  I used to set them up based on the rules, upload them, then change them based on my preference.  I no longer have that kind of time, so I no longer make that extra effort, which means I no longer contribute.

That being said, I don't see wholesale removal of cast roles simply because you feel they are undocumented supported by the rules.  It certainly doesn't "add significant value to the dataset" so, depending on one's point of view, could actually be considered a violation of said rules.

Just my two cents, not that it really matters for me because, along with no longer contributing, I no longer download data from the on-line so the won't really affect me.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKathy
Registered: May 29, 2007
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Quoting GSyren:
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Quoting Kathy:
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Ken weighed in on the removal of Uncredited Cast here:

http://invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=430575&PageNum=1

This thread does not concern uncredited cast. It concerns undocumented role names, which is something entirely different.


I posted the link that lists a bunch of Ken's statements - the one about Uncredited Cast is here:

http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=430575&PageNum=3&messageID=1178884#M1178884
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting Kathy:
Quote:
I posted the link that lists a bunch of Ken's statements - the one about Uncredited Cast is here:

http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=430575&PageNum=3&messageID=1178884#M1178884


I don't think you understood me. This thread (the one we are in now) is not about uncredited cast.
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
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Quoting TheMadMartian:
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Those are not the only two options.

Actually they are. Since I decide what to contribute, I decide the options. And those two are it.

It's a matter of principle. Since the contribution is in whole sections, that means that when I contribute,  I contribute the whole cast. And for me that means that I have to take responsibility for the whole cast. I have to know where tha data comes from. If I don't then I am not willing to contribute it. That might seem pigheaded to some, but that's the way I am.

So it's a simple case of loss or roles vs. loss of corrections.
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributordee1959jay
Registered: March 19, 2007
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To me, contributing requires being sure that what I’m submitting is correct. As a result, I will not remove role names unless I’m sure they’re incorrect. But that’s just me.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpaulb_99
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Registered: March 14, 2007
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But if there are a lot of mistakes in the cast credits (Wrong names, wrong order etc.), why would we assume the roles are correct?

I agree with GSyren here.
 Last edited: by paulb_99
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
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Quoting paulb_99:
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But if there are a lot of mistakes in the cast credits (Wrong names, wrong order etc.), why would we assume the roles are correct?

And  what if there are NO MISTAKES, and only changes to a Common Name are being made?

Notice that GSyren isn't saying the roles are incorrect, only that he can't be bothered to check them himself and so doesn't feel comfortable re-contributing them.  I say he should save himself even more trouble and keep his changes local.

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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
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I resent "can't be bothered".

I spend many, many hours updating my local database to a standard that I am comfortable with. And I am willing to share all that work with the online database. Now it seems that you're saying that what I am doing is not enough.

When my profile is done, there are no roles in the cast list if they are not in the credits or their source is documented. I have no wish to spend additional time fiddling with roles that I have no use for myself.

If I contribute without roles, anybody who owns that title can update the cast list with roles and document the source.
If nobody can be bothered to do that, then that's not on me.

If that isn't acceptable, then I'll be happy to exclude those cast updates from my contributions.
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Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAlunH
Registered: February 19, 2012
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I've just finished watching The Untouchables (great series - surprisingly violent.  How they got away with this in 1960 I have no idea).  The profiles in the database had no cast and crew info, so I've adding these disc by disc.

Crew's fine, they're comprehensive credits for an old series.  The problem is with the cast - the smaller parts are credited perfectly, but the big guest stars are credited by name only - no character names listed. 

When contributing these I could do one of two things:
- Leave some of the actors credited without roles
- Give the characters names.

As the smaller parts have credited roles, I'd prefer the guest stars to have them too.  So I'm giving them names.  But where do I get the names from?  The credits aren't remotely consistent when it comes to the named characters - some have titles, some have surnames, some have two names, some just a first name.  If the proper credits aren't consistent, how do I choose what name to give the guest stars?  If their name is in the title ("The Nero Rankin Story", for example) then that's easy - Will Kuluva gets a credit as "Nero Rankin".  But I could just as easily credit him as Mr. Rankin, Rankin or Nero.  All would be correct.  All would be used within the episode (as this concerns gangsters, it's particularly complicated by the fact that a lot of these people have nicknames like "knives" or "big Jim").

I can't see there being a right or wrong answer to this.  We clearly can't source all our information from elsewhere, partly for copyright reasons, but chiefly because the IMDb is almost always wrong (I have yet to find a single episode of The Untouchables where the IMDb actually matches the on-screen credits).  So this is largely down to personal preference.

Personally, if someone has put the work in to accurately submit the cast and crew, I'm less worried that they have the character names credited correctly - the most important part is that the actors are right, and I'm grateful that someone's put the time and work in to doing this.  If the names are on screen then fine, use that.  If they're not, then stick down whatever you want.  I'd rather a character name than a blank.  I don't care if you credit Sean Connery as 007, Bond, James, Commander Bond, Cmdr James Bond or simply James Bond.  All are correct.  The most important thing is that the credit for Sean Connery is there.  (Unless, obviously, you have no idea what the credit should be - in which case I'd rather have the actor credited correctly without a role than not be sure if the credits are correct or not.)

So I suppose I'm saying I'd rather you left the credits in, even if you're not sure - as long as the actor's right, that's the most important thing.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorscotthm
Registered: March 20, 2007
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Quoting GSyren:
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I resent "can't be bothered".

Please don't take it that way.  I would say the same of myself, and is why I make very few contributions.

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 Last edited: by scotthm
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorpaulb_99
PSN-ID: Magnolia-Fan
Registered: March 14, 2007
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Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
Quoting paulb_99:
Quote:
But if there are a lot of mistakes in the cast credits (Wrong names, wrong order etc.), why would we assume the roles are correct?

And  what if there are NO MISTAKES, and only changes to a Common Name are being made?

Notice that GSyren isn't saying the roles are incorrect, only that he can't be bothered to check them himself and so doesn't feel comfortable re-contributing them.  I say he should save himself even more trouble and keep his changes local.

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If the cast is correct and only an common name is added i agree the cast roles should remain. If, however, there are lots of mistakes and missing cast i think we should remove them.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
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Quoting AlunH:
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So I suppose I'm saying I'd rather you left the credits in, even if you're not sure - as long as the actor's right, that's the most important thing.

That's really not an answer to my question. My local profile will not have any roles if they are not in the credits and they are not documented. The only question is - should I contribute the roleless cast if there are corrections in the cast. You can't have your cake and eat it too. At least not in this case.

And btw, if you get roles from watching the film/episode, that's as good a source as any - if you document it.
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Gunnar
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