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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 820 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dan W: Quote:
Quoting Telecine:
Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Telecine, the Contribution ois CORRECT you need to learn a little more about the history of film and and General Lew Wallace's Book.
Skip
Really? That is very presumptuous of you. Here are a couple of references to get you started:
http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/52/benhur.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben-Hur
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0016641/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052618/combined
http://www.filmsite.org/benh.html
That is just the first page of google results that I can refer you to that are handy for everyone to reference.
In every case the 1925 version is referenced as Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ. A Tale of the Christ is referred to as a subtitle and the film is based on Lew Wallace's novel, Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ.
What have you got?
I have an 1880 copy of the book.
Here are a couple scans.
Title Page
Copyright Page
Now, I have showed you the title from the film and the title from the book. What else do you need? I see your book title shot and raise your with............. The Library of Congress catalogue: http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?v1=1&ti=1,1&Search%5FArg=ben%2Dhur&Search%5FCode=TALL&CNT=25&PID=24769&SEQ=20070609214516&SID=1 |
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 | Dan W | | Registered: May 9, 2002 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 980 |
| | Posted: | | | | How can a library catalog override the actual book? Their catalog is insufficient, especially when you look at their sources and realize they are using reprints. I believe their earliest copy is 1925. | | | | Dan | | | | Last edited: by Dan W |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 793 |
| | Posted: | | | | Very often, subtitles are displayed on a separate line or in a different position to the main title, hence they don't have a colon, but they would require a colon (or hyphen) if placed on a single line. You can see from the screen grab that "A Tale of the Christ" is displayed in a completely different font. In the book (very cool owning that Dan), it is placed several lines below the main title and in smaller sized font. Both confirm that it is a subtitle rather than a continuation of the main title. Since we tend to favour the colon, Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ would be the correct title to have in the profile. ALMOST FAMOUS does the same thing:  As does THE EVIL DEAD:  There are many more examples. | | | | Last edited: by Squirrelecto |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 820 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dan W: Quote:
How can a library catalog override the actual book? Their catalog is insufficient, especially when you look at their sources and realize they are using reprints. I think their earliest copy is 1925. Come on...It is an American book, the Library of Congress is the peak body for cataloguing books in the US. It is a world-renowned library. We are using a DVD cataloguing product. Surely that is the end of the argument. | | | | Last edited: by Telecine |
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| Dan W | | Registered: May 9, 2002 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 980 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Telecine: Quote:
Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
How can a library catalog override the actual book? Their catalog is insufficient, especially when you look at their sources and realize they are using reprints. I think their earliest copy is 1925.
Come on...It is an American book, the Library of Congress is the peak body for cataloguing books in the US. It is a world-renowned library. We are using a DVD cataloguing product. Surely that is the end of the argument. That's funny!!!  You obviously have never worked in a library. Libraries build their catalog from the books they have on hand. Each of these entries are done by one of the librarians on staff or an assigned person. You will find errors in every catalog in every library in the world if you search long or hard enough for them. The reality is, if a person can find the book from the catalog listing, minor errors in the listing are irrelevant. | | | | Dan | | | | Last edited: by Dan W |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 820 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dan W: Quote:
Quoting Telecine:
Quote:
Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
How can a library catalog override the actual book? Their catalog is insufficient, especially when you look at their sources and realize they are using reprints. I think their earliest copy is 1925.
Come on...It is an American book, the Library of Congress is the peak body for cataloguing books in the US. It is a world-renowned library. We are using a DVD cataloguing product. Surely that is the end of the argument.
That's funny!!!
You obviously have never worked in a library.
Libraries build their catalog from the books they have on hand. Each of these entries are done by one of the librarians on staff or an assigned person. You will find errors in every catalog in every library in the world if you search long or hard enough for them. The reality is, if a person can find the book from the catalog listing, minor errors in the listing are irrelevant. Library of Congress record for the film: http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?v3=1&ti=1,1&SEQ=20070609220216&Search%5FArg=ben%2Dhur&Search%5FCode=TALL&CNT=25&PID=7065&SID=1 Concede................... |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 211 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Squirrelecto: Quote:
Very often, subtitles are displayed on a separate line or in a different position to the main title, hence they don't have a colon, but they would require a colon (or hyphen) if placed on a single line.
You can see from the screen grab that "A Tale of the Christ" is displayed in a completely different font. In the book (very cool owning that Dan), it is placed several lines below the main title and in smaller sized font. Both confirm that it is a subtitle rather than a continuation of the main title.
Since we tend to favour the colon, Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ would be the correct title to have in the profile.
There are many more examples. 100% correct, and well stated. |
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| Dan W | | Registered: May 9, 2002 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 980 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Telecine: Quote:
Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
Quoting Telecine:
Quote:
Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
How can a library catalog override the actual book? Their catalog is insufficient, especially when you look at their sources and realize they are using reprints. I think their earliest copy is 1925.
Come on...It is an American book, the Library of Congress is the peak body for cataloguing books in the US. It is a world-renowned library. We are using a DVD cataloguing product. Surely that is the end of the argument.
That's funny!!!
You obviously have never worked in a library.
Libraries build their catalog from the books they have on hand. Each of these entries are done by one of the librarians on staff or an assigned person. You will find errors in every catalog in every library in the world if you search long or hard enough for them. The reality is, if a person can find the book from the catalog listing, minor errors in the listing are irrelevant.
Library of Congress record for the film:
http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?v3=1&ti=1,1&SEQ=20070609220216&Search%5FArg=ben%2Dhur&Search%5FCode=TALL&CNT=25&PID=7065&SID=1
Concede................... I accept that you concede. | | | | Dan |
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| Dan W | | Registered: May 9, 2002 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 980 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Squirrelecto: Quote:
Very often, subtitles are displayed on a separate line or in a different position to the main title, hence they don't have a colon, but they would require a colon (or hyphen) if placed on a single line.
You can see from the screen grab that "A Tale of the Christ" is displayed in a completely different font. In the book (very cool owning that Dan), it is placed several lines below the main title and in smaller sized font. Both confirm that it is a subtitle rather than a continuation of the main title.
Since we tend to favour the colon, Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ would be the correct title to have in the profile.
ALMOST FAMOUS does the same thing:
As does THE EVIL DEAD:
There are many more examples. Excellent point. I accept your argument but all is moot. My contribution has been declined. | | | | Dan |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 820 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dan W: Quote:
Quoting Telecine:
Quote:
Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
Quoting Telecine:
Quote:
Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
How can a library catalog override the actual book? Their catalog is insufficient, especially when you look at their sources and realize they are using reprints. I think their earliest copy is 1925.
Come on...It is an American book, the Library of Congress is the peak body for cataloguing books in the US. It is a world-renowned library. We are using a DVD cataloguing product. Surely that is the end of the argument.
That's funny!!!
You obviously have never worked in a library.
Libraries build their catalog from the books they have on hand. Each of these entries are done by one of the librarians on staff or an assigned person. You will find errors in every catalog in every library in the world if you search long or hard enough for them. The reality is, if a person can find the book from the catalog listing, minor errors in the listing are irrelevant.
Library of Congress record for the film:
http://catalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?v3=1&ti=1,1&SEQ=20070609220216&Search%5FArg=ben%2Dhur&Search%5FCode=TALL&CNT=25&PID=7065&SID=1
Concede...................
I accept that you concede. I see that your contribution has been declined. I have withdrawn mine and resubmitted "Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ" but removed the version "1925 Edition". Concede yet? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | guess it's a black and white / silent movie thing. see "The Ten Commandments: 1923 Epic Silent Film" Hmmmmm. I personally like having it there, and will probably keep it no matter what the online says, but I do see your point for the online Db. The other remakes I have (or know of off the top of my head) are not handled like this, except the one I mentioned above. If you want to know what version of "The Alamo" or "The Flight of the Phoenix" you are looking at you have to click on the profile. Since the rules say "The Edition field is for distinguishing between DVDs" and do not say the edition field has to be from the box I believe what is there is valid (as I said earlier), but I will go with the voters on this one. For now my vote on your contribution is a strong neutral  |
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| Dan W | | Registered: May 9, 2002 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 980 |
| | Posted: | | | | There was a 1931 re-release of this film which contained music, sound effects, and had scenes removed.
Version should stay.
Edit:
Most of those 1931 prints also had the color scenes re-printed into black & white. | | | | Dan | | | | Last edited: by Dan W |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 820 |
| | Posted: | | | | Dan W,
I see that you have voted no to my contribution removing the Version "1925 Edition". The contribution rules state:
"Edition
The Edition field is for distinguishing between DVDs, and for indicating special versions and collections (for example The Criterion Collection, Widescreen, Full-Screen Edition). It's usually safe to use one of the built-in selections if appropriate. If you are using a non-standard description, take it from the DVD box, and ensure it will help distinguish between different releases of the same title."
Since the 1925 version is recorded in the database as "Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ" and the 1959 version is recorded as "Ben-Hur" would you care to explain why we need the Version recorded as "1925 Edition" to distinguish between the two?
As lyondon5 has pointed out, the only other film in the database that records the year as the Edition is "The Ten Commandments". That film has an identically named counterpart and can therefore be distinguished from the instant case. |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 820 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dan W: Quote:
There was a 1931 re-release of this film which contained music, sound effects, and had scenes removed.
Version should stay.
Edit:
Most of those 1931 prints also had the color scenes re-printed into black & white. Is it available on DVD? |
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| Dan W | | Registered: May 9, 2002 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 980 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Telecine: Quote:
Dan W,
I see that you have voted no to my contribution removing the Version "1925 Edition". The contribution rules state:
"Edition
The Edition field is for distinguishing between DVDs, and for indicating special versions and collections (for example The Criterion Collection, Widescreen, Full-Screen Edition). It's usually safe to use one of the built-in selections if appropriate. If you are using a non-standard description, take it from the DVD box, and ensure it will help distinguish between different releases of the same title."
Since the 1925 version is recorded in the database as "Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ" and the 1959 version is recorded as "Ben-Hur" would you care to explain why we need the Version recorded as "1925 Edition" to distinguish between the two?
As lyondon5 has pointed out, the only other film in the database that records the year as the Edition is "The Ten Commandments". That film has an identically named counterpart and can therefore be distinguished from the instant case. Read my last post. | | | | Dan |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 820 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dan W: Quote:
Quoting Telecine:
Quote:
Dan W,
I see that you have voted no to my contribution removing the Version "1925 Edition". The contribution rules state:
"Edition
The Edition field is for distinguishing between DVDs, and for indicating special versions and collections (for example The Criterion Collection, Widescreen, Full-Screen Edition). It's usually safe to use one of the built-in selections if appropriate. If you are using a non-standard description, take it from the DVD box, and ensure it will help distinguish between different releases of the same title."
Since the 1925 version is recorded in the database as "Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ" and the 1959 version is recorded as "Ben-Hur" would you care to explain why we need the Version recorded as "1925 Edition" to distinguish between the two?
As lyondon5 has pointed out, the only other film in the database that records the year as the Edition is "The Ten Commandments". That film has an identically named counterpart and can therefore be distinguished from the instant case. Read my last post. Read mine. I reiterate, is it available on DVD? What is more, has it been contributed to the database? If not, then it is an irrelevancy. |
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