Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
Again you are missing what I am asking, tele. I know the history all too well, I need to know if the title is on DVD from ANY distributor. At the moment I wish I was more familiar with this aspect, so I could research it, but I only know that there are companies that deal inwith films from this period, I just don't know who they are.

Skip

Skip,

With the greatest respect, and I do mean that, I do not follow the logic of these arguments. I have established through unimpeachable sources, namely the Library of Congress and the General Lew Wallace Study and Museum website, that the film is entitled, Ben-Hur: A Tale of the Christ. This was in response to a submission made Dan W seeking to drop the colon from the title.

I have established through the same sources that a “A minor change version” of the film was re-released with English language interior titles with musical track added in 1931.

There is no profile in the database for any other version of the film than the 1925 one.

The contribution rules state:

"Edition
The Edition field is for distinguishing between DVDs, and for indicating special versions and collections (for example The Criterion Collection, Widescreen, Full-Screen Edition). It's usually safe to use one of the built-in selections if appropriate. If you are using a non-standard description, take it from the DVD box, and ensure it will help distinguish between different releases of the same title."

I think that you are being unreasonable in asking me to prove a negative i.e that no other version of the film has been released on DVD other than the 1925.

You and Dan W are the ones that have voted no to my contribution on the basis that a 1931 version of the film exists even though it hasn't been profiled and submitted.

I can find no evidence that such a release exits on DVD.

In any event, if it was released and contributed then it should have have something recorded such as 1931 Version to distinguish it from the original version. According to the rules we distinguish subsequent versions from the original not the other way round. I can see no reason to have the Edition recorded as the "1925 Version" for this profile.

Here is some further information for your consideration:

There are two versions available on VHS. I cannot find any other versions on DVD than the submitted profile.

More details on the film:

Reissued by MGM in 1931 in a shortened version with an orchestral score by William Axt and David Mendoza.

The Thames Silents edition, prepared in 1988, was produced by David Gill and Kevin Brownlow. (See: http://www.cinemaweb.com/silentfilm/25bhur.htm )

A video version with original tints and Technicolor sequences restored. Music composed and conducted by Carl Davis. Performed by The London Philharmonic Orchestra. Original 2-Strip Technicolor courtesy of the Czech Film Archive. (See: http://www.cinemaweb.com/silentfilm/25bhur.htm )

The released version is based on this Thames Television restored version (See: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7324923&st=BEN-HUR&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1501210)


The Book

The book is in the public domain. (See: http://www.infomotions.com/etexts/gutenberg/dirs/etext00/benhr10.htm)

The Film

Copyright information: Turner Entertainment Company  holds the copyright (See: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0016641/business) (See also: http://williampatry.blogspot.com/2006/09/ben-hur-rides-again.html for a history of Copyright issues with the book and 1925 film)

Who has the print? Print exists in the Turner Entertainment Company film archive [35mm positive].(See: http://www.silentera.com/PSFL/data/B/BenHurATaleoftheChrist1925.html)

Copyright laws vary from country to country so proving that no company has released a DVD version of the 1931 variation is near on impossible. Prima Facie however, Turner Entertainment Company would appear to hold the copyright at least in the US and hold the negative. There may be a copy in the Czech Film Archive.

Given that you and Dan W claim a release of the DVD exists, how about some evidence?

Quoting Staid S Barr:

Quote:
Why not just put the 1925 in 'Produced'? Then 'Edition' can be reserved for different formats of exactly the same movie.

Exactly. My very point. That is what we do with every other contribution but this one apparently. Somehow this one is special.

Quoting Dan W:

Quote:
The 1926 re-edit that I found in the db is a region 2 release with a locality of New Zealand. I was mistaken about it being only b/w but I am told it is the re-edit from 1926 which is missing a couple of scenes. As I said, I do not have this DVD in my collection so I cannot verify the re-edit. The cover clearly states that it is the 1926 version.

As to your assertion that it has always been the "re-releases" which receive a year notation while the "original" does not, I'm not sure that's accurate. I understand this to mean DVD release. You seem to feel that the film release is meant.

Either way, each release of the same title should be noted.

Now, the region 2 profile for the 1926 version needs to be corrected but as I said, I do not have this in my collection. Since you're in Australia, perhaps you can readily find a copy and verify all of this for us?

Curious Dan, are you advocating adding similar notations to all of the re-makes? Example "Miracle on 34th Street". As I said, I am not opposed to it but it is not how we've been doing it.

Quoting Telecine:

Quote:
The UPC on the back cover is 4710667910043. I see that it has been contributed by Disc id. I would say that is because it is not a valid UPC but haven't bothered to check myself.

Just FYI, it's a EAN and it is valid.  That said, a search on this code on google gives only 1 result.

http://www.eslitebooks.com/Program/object/BookMD.aspx?PageNo=1&PROD_ID=2631145541004

As I said, I have been told it is the 1926 re-edit. You can assume what you like but until I see it I can't verify or deny the version. All I can do is tell you what I have been told.

If you go by the back cover only, it shows this to be the edited version. Adding that to what I was told, I believe it's the 1926 re-edited version.

Let's not forget that it's also a New Zealand release. If I'm not mistaken, the current censors there can be quite tough and the removal of the nudity is not surprising.

Thanks for the verification on the EAN, Touti.

Quoting Touti:

Quote:
Quoting Telecine:

Quote:
The UPC on the back cover is 4710667910043. I see that it has been contributed by Disc id. I would say that is because it is not a valid UPC but haven't bothered to check myself.

Just FYI, it's a EAN and it is valid.  That said, a search on this code on google gives only 1 result.

http://www.eslitebooks.com/Program/object/BookMD.aspx?PageNo=1&PROD_ID=2631145541004

Is there anyone who can translate this page for us?

Quoting Dan W:

Quote:
As I said, I have been told it is the 1926 re-edit. You can assume what you like but until I see it I can't verify or deny the version. All I can do is tell you what I have been told.

If you go by the back cover only, it shows this to be the edited version. Adding that to what I was told, I believe it's the 1926 re-edited version.

Let's not forget that it's also a New Zealand release. If I'm not mistaken, the current censors there can be quite tough and the removal of the nudity is not surprising.

Thanks for the verification on the EAN, Touti.

If you look at Touti's post, I think that you will find that it is the New Zealand release made in China.

New Zealand is in the same region as I am, Region 4. The only place that I have seen this DVD for sale is on E-Bay by individuals in China. Call me a cynic but I am confident that it is a pirated copy. Whether it is a pirated copy of the 1926 version that I have not heard of or the 1931 version that I have as opposed to the 1925 version that suspect that it is, is not much use to us if it is pirated.

I've been digging a little.  The MFG Number of this EAN belongs to

Name: BUDDHA VIDEO LTD.
Address: 4TH FL., NO. 72, SEC. 1, MIN SHAN EAST ROAD, TAIPEI, TAIWAN, R.O.C. TAIPEI CITY 104 TW
UPC/EAN Prefix:  4710667

I found only 1 other item with this EAN Prefix which is "Desk Set" and is not in the online DB either.  I couldn't find this version of Ben-Hur anywhere but I found many DVD's from this company sold on HKFLIX.