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What title to use?
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting DJ Doena:
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For me a title is the thing written in great letters on the front side of a thing. It declares what it wants to be called. And for this purpose it's irrational to hide it.


So, if something doesn't meet that criteria, it doesn't have a title?  That sure seems like an odd position to take.  I have quite a few books on my shelf that have nothing 'written in great letters on the front side' of it.  Does that mean they don't have a title? 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNexus the Sixth
Contributor since 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
The authoritative source for information submitted should be the DVD itself.  Please don't submit content from a third party database, and always verify the specifications printed on the cover.  In both cases, errors abound, so always verify the information directly from the DVD whenever possible.


Then the title is definitely Open Range since that's printed on the DVD itself.
First registered: February 15, 2002
 Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Quoting Patsa:
Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
The authoritative source for information submitted should be the DVD itself.  Please don't submit content from a third party database, and always verify the specifications printed on the cover.  In both cases, errors abound, so always verify the information directly from the DVD whenever possible.


Then the title is definitely Open Range since that's printed on the DVD itself.


Yes, that is the title in the country of origin...it is not, however, the localized title.  Nice try though.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Sorry Unicus, but Patsa's right - we are only allowed to take the title from one place - the front cover. There are no exceptions listed in the rules.
Whether that was the intent of the rules - I seriously doubt it, but we can only go by what's written.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Quoting northbloke:
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Sorry Unicus, but Patsa's right - we are only allowed to take the title from one place - the front cover. There are no exceptions listed in the rules.
Whether that was the intent of the rules - I seriously doubt it, but we can only go by what's written.


There is an exception.  That exception is for foreign films...

Foreign Films: The Original Title field will contain the original title for the main feature in the country of origin.  i.e. A German DVD release for a film originally produced in the United States would have the German title in the Title field and the English title in the Original Title Field.

Regardless of where this is located in the rules, it is quite clear.  A non-US release of a US film will have the localized title in the title field.  The only way to get around that little fact is to ignore it.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNexus the Sixth
Contributor since 2002
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What are the sources allowed for localized titles, if not taken from the front cover? Can you point to where in the rules it says to take them from the back of the case or anywhere else? And what about films that have localized titles that are not printed anywhere on the case at all, should we still add them?
First registered: February 15, 2002
 Last edited: by Nexus the Sixth
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
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But that's for the original title field, not the title field.
If the title hasn't been translated for the locality (as in this case) then that rule wouldn't apply.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Quoting northbloke:
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But that's for the original title field, not the title field.


I am sorry, but I am pretty sure both fields are mentioned in that rule.

Quote:
If the title hasn't been translated for the locality (as in this case) then that rule wouldn't apply.


Let's say I agree with you and the only way a localized title can be entered, into the title field, is if it is on the front of the case.  Why, then, do we have the rule I quoted above?

A case where the localized title is the only title on the front of the case, is already covered by the 'use the title from the front of the case' rule.

A case where the localized title, and the original title, are both on the front of the case, is already covered by the 'If the title appears in multiple languages' rule.

In both cases above, the 'original title will be different than the localized title, so it is already covered by the first paragraph of the original title rule.  Why did they make a specific, detailed, rule for foreign films?  If you are correct, then this rule serves no purpose.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
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The case you mention where both titles are on the front cover only partially tells us what to do - use the locality's language for the title field.
The rule in the original title section tells us what to do with the other title with the rule you quote.

I've just had a quick scan of my collection and I've found three titles where the title hasn't been translated - are you saying I'm supposed to translate those titles in english despite the fact there are no english titles on the cover?
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
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Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
The case you mention where both titles are on the front cover only partially tells us what to do - use the locality's language for the title field.
The rule in the original title section tells us what to do with the other title with the rule you quote.


As I said above, that is covered in the first paragraph of the 'original title' rule.  There is no need for a specific 'foreign title' portion of the rule as any DVD, that has a different title on the cover, is covered by that rule.

The only reason to specify 'foreign titles' is if we are to do that with all foreign titles.

Quote:
I've just had a quick scan of my collection and I've found three titles where the title hasn't been translated - are you saying I'm supposed to translate those titles in english despite the fact there are no english titles on the cover?


No, that is what the rules is saying.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
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Registered: August 22, 2007
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Quoting Unicus69:
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Quoting EnryWiki:
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Quoting Giga Wizard:
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The rules allow for the use of foreign titles.


Sorry, the "Foreign Film" paragraph is s under the Original Title section, not the Title field.


So what?  How does the location of the rule change what it says?  It is very specific as to what goes in each field.  To ignore what it says, simply because it is in a different section, is ludicrous.


Well, it's under the section that tells us how to determine the content of a different field, not of the "Title" field. Therefore...
-- Enry
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
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Quoting Unicus69:
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As I said above, that is covered in the first paragraph of the 'original title' rule.  There is no need for a specific 'foreign title' portion of the rule as any DVD, that has a different title on the cover, is covered by that rule.

The first paragraph only tells us what the original title field is for and mentions two cases when we use it. The rules then continue to give us those cases in detail: foreign films and modified titles. And in both cases we are only told what to put in the original title field.
If you're saying we're told what to do in that first paragraph, why have any of the rest of the section? Why not remove the modified title section too?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantWhite Pongo, Jr.
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting DJ Doena:
Quote:
For me a title is the thing written in great letters on the front side of a thing. It declares what it wants to be called. And for this purpose it's irrational to hide it.


So, if something doesn't meet that criteria, it doesn't have a title?  That sure seems like an odd position to take.  I have quite a few books on my shelf that have nothing 'written in great letters on the front side' of it.  Does that mean they don't have a title? 


But then, if a book does have a title written in great letters on the front side, then you take that as the title of the book, don't you?
-- Enry
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting northbloke:
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Quoting Unicus69:
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As I said above, that is covered in the first paragraph of the 'original title' rule.  There is no need for a specific 'foreign title' portion of the rule as any DVD, that has a different title on the cover, is covered by that rule.

The first paragraph only tells us what the original title field is for and mentions two cases when we use it.


Since it only mentions two cases, does that mean we don't use it unless it is one of those cases? 

Quote:
The rules then continue to give us those cases in detail: foreign films and modified titles. And in both cases we are only told what to put in the original title field.


I am sorry, but that simply isn't true.  The rule says, "A German DVD release for a film originally produced in the United States would have the German title in the Title field and the English title in the Original Title Field."

The part I bolded tells us what to put into the title field.

Quote:
If you're saying we're told what to do in that first paragraph, why have any of the rest of the section? Why not remove the modified title section too?


The modified title rule is redundant and is not needed.  The fact that it is redundant, however, does not mean we don't have to follow it.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 13,201
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Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
Well, it's under the section that tells us how to determine the content of a different field, not of the "Title" field. Therefore...


As I said, and you have yet to counter, how does it's location change what it says?  It still says to put the localized title in the title field.  There is no getting around that little fact.

In addition, if we are being technical, all of these rules are listed under the 'Titles' section of the rules.  That means they have to do with the title of the DVD.
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
 Last edited: by TheMadMartian
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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United States Posts: 13,201
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Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
But then, if a book does have a title written in great letters on the front side, then you take that as the title of the book, don't you?


Yes, but I don't see any rules telling me something different now do I? 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
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