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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Theme by & Additonal Music |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 940 |
| | Posted: | | | | One other small issue with Theme writers is the fact that the only Song Writer credits allowed are "Original Songs written specifically for the film" quoting the note from the crew chart.
By that clear definition, any theme song is not eligible for contribution for ANY film except the original film in which it appears. A piece of music, irregardless of whether it has lyrics or not, that has been included in a film is no longer original to any subsequent films.
Having said that, if we are never going to get a Theme By type credit added to the Music section, I would not object to the addition of Theme credits under the Song Writer credits. But if we are going to get a Theme By credit, we should stop adding them, because they're all going to need fixing. | | | | Kevin |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
[...] a theme is not a song with lyrics. [...] Yes, you're right, but a theme is still a song. It's a song without lyrics and therefore we can use the song writer credit. |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting antolod: Quote:
One other small issue with Theme writers is the fact that the only Song Writer credits allowed are "Original Songs written specifically for the film" quoting the note from the crew chart.
By that clear definition, any theme song is not eligible for contribution for ANY film except the original film in which it appears. A piece of music, irregardless of whether it has lyrics or not, that has been included in a film is no longer original to any subsequent films.
Good point. In which case David Armold's theme for Stargate wouldn't be allowed on any Stargate SG-1 profile anyway. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 4,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | If we ever get a Theme By credit available I think we need both a Composer and a Song Writer credit to cover all cases.
There are many cases where a composer is credited for a theme song along with a Song writer/Lyrics By credit for the person who wrote the Lyrics to the theme song.
For example I think Gilligan's Island has a composer and a Lyrics By credits for the theme song listed.
For example Gilligan's Island would have the following credits. (I'm not pulling the discs out to look, going by memory) So this is very vague.
Composer (For Music By credit)
Theme Composer (For Theme Music Composer credit)
Theme Song Writer(s) (For Theme Music Song Writers credit) |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | If that's the case we may be better off asking for a checkbox instead (like voice or uncredited) to signify that the composer/song writer only worked on the theme. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 940 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
If that's the case we may be better off asking for a checkbox instead (like voice or uncredited) to signify that the composer/song writer only worked on the theme. There's an idea.  This method would eliminate the need to know if there are lyrics to a "song" since Theme by could be either a composer or song writer credit with Theme checked. If no lyricists is credited, the logical choice (for those who are determined to use outside sources to define DVDP terms) would be composer:theme. But why do I see ping ponging of whether or not a credit is a composer:theme or song writer:theme?  | | | | Kevin |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting antolod: Quote:
But if we are going to get a Theme By credit, we should stop adding them, because they're all going to need fixing. I agree with this sentiment (and it applies to all shoehorned credits)....and being the optimist, believe that we will get a "Theme By" credit........on Monday! | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
If that's the case we may be better off asking for a checkbox instead (like voice or uncredited) to signify that the composer/song writer only worked on the theme. I'd rather see a checkbox for "Theme By" with choices of "Music" and "Lyrics". Edit: We could have the same checkbox for "Songwriter". | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,480 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote:
There you have it in a nutshell folks...thus the problem.
Ken or Gerri: Can we PLEASE, Puhleeease have a ruling here???
We can't have a ruling with the current credit options. A theme is not a score and a theme is not a song with lyrics.
I believe themes can be classified as songs, but that doesn't sit well with those who say they aren't songs. But just because some say they aren't songs doesn't make them scores either.
We need a theme credit option. Until then, the only choice that is true to both sides of the argument is to leave them out.
Looking at the credits posted by Tim, it would seem that the film makers believe that the "Theme from Star Trek: the Motion Picture" is in fact a song......even though it has NO lyrics!
Good enough for me! Yes, it's a great post! He posted while I was composing mine though, so that's why I didn't reference his post.  Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote:
There you have it in a nutshell folks...thus the problem.
Ken or Gerri: Can we PLEASE, Puhleeease have a ruling here???
We can't have a ruling with the current credit options. A theme is not a score and a theme is not a song with lyrics.
I believe themes can be classified as songs, but that doesn't sit well with those who say they aren't songs. But just because some say they aren't songs doesn't make them scores either.
We need a theme credit option. Until then, the only choice that is true to both sides of the argument is to leave them out.
A "Theme by" credit alone wouldn't solve the "Additional Music" issue though James. Problem is folks aren't leaving them out they are giving them both Composer credit which is bogus. I agree that "Theme by" wouldn't solve "Additional Music". But do we want to? I'm not sure. Maybe. Themes are important and I wish we could include them in a way that doesn't become a forum debate. If we're given a role for "Additional Music", I won't complain.  Quoting RHo: Quote:
Quoting m.cellophane:
Quote:
[...] a theme is not a song with lyrics. [...]
Yes, you're right, but a theme is still a song. It's a song without lyrics and therefore we can use the song writer credit. I agree, and I've argued that point before. I agree with Tim's points, but I think I'm just too tired of the fighting. Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
If that's the case we may be better off asking for a checkbox instead (like voice or uncredited) to signify that the composer/song writer only worked on the theme.
I'd rather see a checkbox for "Theme By" with choices of "Music" and "Lyrics".
Edit: We could have the same checkbox for "Songwriter". This would also be very handy for those situations where it is clearly spelled out that Person A wrote the music for the song and Person B wrote the lyrics. I like this idea a lot! | | | ...James
"People fake a lot of human interactions, but I feel like I fake them all, and I fake them very well. That’s my burden, I guess." ~ Dexter Morgan | | | | Last edited: by m.cellophane |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Warming up for my next song. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 366 |
| | Posted: | | | | A theme can be a song, but it is not necessarily one and should not be credited as such automatically without support from the actual credits themselves.
Usually, themes are part of the original score, but sometimes they are borrowed for sequels (or parodies and spoofs) and used by a different compser, which is why the original theme's composer gets credited.
A theme and theme song are not the same. A theme is a recognizable, repeating, and (sometimes) developing melody. A theme song is the signature tune of the film/show and can exist with or without lyrics (which is why on that Star Trek credit, both Goldsmith and Courage's music is referred to as a song).
So to recap...all theme songs (without lyrics) are themes, but not all themes are theme songs.
If you need specific examples of each, I'll be happy to oblige. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Mi, mi, mi, mi. I have one in mind just for Tim. I also have the clearance from Langley, VA.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | My god we have people around here with absolutely NO sense of humor. That is why i take so few of the comments around here seriously, absolutely UNBELIEVABLE. However since we have NO sense humor, it is time for me to sing again.  This one's for you, Tim.  Believe it or not I'm walking on air, never thought i could feel so free...ee..ee Flying away on a wing and a prayer...... Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting nolesrule: Quote:
A theme and theme song are not the same. A theme is a recognizable, repeating, and (sometimes) developing melody. A theme song is the signature tune of the film/show and can exist with or without lyrics (which is why on that Star Trek credit, both Goldsmith and Courage's music is referred to as a song).
So to recap...all theme songs (without lyrics) are themes, but not all themes are theme songs.
If you need specific examples of each, I'll be happy to oblige. Actually, a theme is a melodic subject of a musical composition or movement A theme song, as I explained before, is a melody recurring so often in a musical play that it characterizes the production or one of its characters. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree in principle, Unicus, but you are a bit narrow here. Music can be used to describe far more than simply A character....relationships...even setting the overall tone for a particular scene, one of these that comes to mind is John Williams underscore of the beach scene in Jaws, titled something like "Tourists on the Menu". BTW wh8ile I am thinking about it, whoever it is that doesn't have a sense of humor. I am looking at you cross-eyed.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video | | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 8,667 |
| | Posted: | | | | I'm still fairly dumbstruck by the way some people deal with this: taking turns in declaring their own personal definitions of what "themes", "songs" and "theme songs" are. That's all very nice, but it really doesn't matter and more importantly: it doesn't get us one step further.
The key issue remains that people WILL track these one way or another, simply because the contribution of the theme writer is usually pretty significant - and often, their credit is, too. Knowing that, I thought it would be best to settle on a uniform way of doing so, instead of everyone just working from his own personal preference. I've outlined the best way to handle this within the constraints of the current set-up: "composer" remains reserved for the actual composer of the score, and any other original piece of music (whether it's accompanied by lyrics or not) gets a "song writer" credit. It's simple, and it works: it retains the meaning of the "composer" credit, yet it lets us track the significant input of other musical contributors, while keeping them clearly separated from each other.
Now that may not match with some of your definitions, but it's the only way we can track this stuff within the constraints of the program at this point. |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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