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Invelos Forums->General: Website Discussion |
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"Open Discussion" Forum |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Yes that happened, and I won't get into who did what, but it happened in an unmoderated forum. If the opt-in forum is moderated, which I hope it will be, the initial comparison would have been removed with a warning to cease and desist. If they didn't, they would face the consequences. If one of those consequences were an inability to post, there would be no spill-over into other forums.
So, I agree with hal, but we will never know if we don't give it a try. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting m.cellophane: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
I think the fear of "spill over" is overblown and agree with the part of your response that I've bolded above.
I think it's a real concern. If one does a search here at Invelos for the word "vichy", one finds the evidence of a spill over argument and how it infected these forums for a full year, spanning 11 threads and 4 forums (general, contributions, tech support, and feature requests).
For that reason, I'm not in favor of the proposed "open discussion" forum, even on an opt-in basis and even with increased moderation. Of what benefit is it to me to read moderated chopped up DVD threads with spill over arguments removed? That was prior to any moderation. If the rest of the forum is properly moderated, this issue would be minimized if not eliminated. | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
That was prior to any moderation.
If the rest of the forum is properly moderated, this issue would be minimized if not eliminated. The stars are aligned.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
That was prior to any moderation.
If the rest of the forum is properly moderated, this issue would be minimized if not eliminated.
The stars are aligned. I posted before reading the rest of the thread.  Bad habit! Nice to be on the same side of an issue with you! | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 28, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,299 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Yes that happened, and I won't get into who did what, but it happened in an unmoderated forum. If the opt-in forum is moderated, which I hope it will be, the initial comparison would have been removed with a warning to cease and desist. If they didn't, they would face the consequences. If one of those consequences were an inability to post, there would be no spill-over into other forums. I'm in favour of allowing political discussions too, but that's one hell of a lot of ifs and hopes. Per Ken's post in this thread, as currently envisioned an opt-in forum will have minimal moderation. This is why I cast my vote to allow it in the General Discussion forum, where it would have the same level of moderation as the rest of the forum. If Ken changed his mind and went for a fully moderated opt-in forum I would probably vote for that option instead. As for the spill over issue, I definitely think there'd be spillover and I think it would result in the kind of chopped up threads m.cellophane mentioned. At least at first. If moderators took an iron fist approach (which I really think they should) then those who engage in spill-over would quickly realize the futility of that and likely change their ways. Anyway, with the way the vote is looking right now, I'm not sure there's any point to this discussion. At the time of writing it's 39/53 in favour of those who would prefer no political discussion allowed, so it would be going against the clear majority if Ken went ahead with political discussions of some kind. Obviously that's his perogative, but I doubt he'd do that. KM | | | Tags, tags, bo bags, banana fana fo fags, mi my mo mags, TAGS!
Dolly's not alone. You can also clone profiles.
You've got questions? You've got answers? Take the DVD Profiler Wiki for a spin. | | | | Last edited: by Astrakan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Astrakan: Quote:
My thoughts is that I would prefer if political topics were allowed, but not in an unmoderated forum as described by Ken. I'd prefer any political discussion to be moderated as much as the rest of the site, in order for personal attacks to be kept at a minimum.
KM If the area is opt-in, then why does there need to be moderation? If you want moderated discussion ("OK, children, everybody make nice and get along now, hear?") stay out. If you aren't adult enough to handle a serious discussion you shouldn't be there in the first place. Just for drill, how would you handle a discussion about a serious political DVD drama that happens to be about a controversial, polarizing subject? | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! | | | | Last edited: by Rifter |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
If the area is opt-in, then why does there need to be moderation? He explains that in the post directly above yours: the risk of spill-over into the rest of the forum. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
If the area is opt-in, then why does there need to be moderation?
He explains that in the post directly above yours: the risk of spill-over into the rest of the forum. And like *I* said, if you aren't adult enough to handle serious discussions, you shouldn't be there at all. If you can, you don't need a monitor to stand over you like you're some 5 year old playground bully. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | If you (general) can't discuss serious subjects without acting like a playground bully then you require moderating, and that's the problem. People on here weren't capable of discussing sensitive issues like adults, so we got moderators and politics and religion got banned.
And until the users on here can show they are capable of adult discussion I don't think they should come back.
And it's the users who were least capable of handling adult discussion that are most likely to enter an open discussion forum as they were blindly unaware of their own behaviour. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
If the area is opt-in, then why does there need to be moderation? If you want moderated discussion ("OK, children, everybody make nice and get along now, hear?") stay out. If you aren't adult enough to handle a serious discussion you shouldn't be there in the first place. That is exactly the reason it should be moderated...because some people aren't adult enough to handle a serious discussion. When they get offended, they tend to make personal and insulting attacks. That should not be allowed in a serious, adult, discussion. JMHO | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 171 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
If the area is opt-in, then why does there need to be moderation?
He explains that in the post directly above yours: the risk of spill-over into the rest of the forum.
And like *I* said, if you aren't adult enough to handle serious discussions, you shouldn't be there at all. If you can, you don't need a monitor to stand over you like you're some 5 year old playground bully. The problem is that there are people in this forum that don't know what a serious discussion is. Even in a serious discussion, there is no need for personal attacks. Based on the history of this forum, I think that no matter whether it's an opt-in forum or not, moderation will be necessary. |
| | Registered: May 9, 2007 |  Posts: 1,536 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CharlieM: Quote:
I think that with proper moderation, an occasional debate about current events could be beneficial, and maybe break up, the sometimes intense, act of preparing and discussing DVD Profiles. But we NEVER fight about DVD profiles related issues!  | | | | Hans |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Posts: 262 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting ruineddaydreams: Quote:
this is not needed, users who feel they do not want to be here anymore after a ban on political/religious topics are truly not needed here at all... we are here to talk about movies and collecting them... this forum would only create more hatefulness that would spill over into the other forums. I did not see this post until now but it strikes me as being fairly mean and nasty - particularly the bold faces comment. I guess I'm considered one of those people that "are truly not needed here at all". Now I'm a big boy and my initial reaction to this is to take a shot back at this attack (and not complain about it) but since most everyone here sees a lot of value in moderation for fear of uncouth behavior I am putting a different hat on and complaining about this post. He basically says a handful of active and valuable long time users can simply get lost b/c they are not needed! I know for sure that if Skip had made a similar comment there would have been a significant reaction from the usual suspects about how mean and unnecessary the comment was etc. If we are going to allow some people to take shots then why moderate at all? I posted a much more thoughtful reply expressing my feelings on moderation and it was unceremoniously removed in its entirety why this nasty shot remains untouched. This is a 2-way street and should be applied fairly and evenly - not just to those who are supposedly uncivilized. Brian |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,199 |
| | Posted: | | | | I agree with everything you said. In addition, this "we are here to talk about movies and collecting them" sentiment rings quite hollow. If that is the case, then any subject, that doesn't fall into that category, should be disallowed. I don't see anyone asking for that to happen.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 28, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,299 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
If the area is opt-in, then why does there need to be moderation? I answered that question in the passage you quoted. "In order for personal attacks to be kept at a minimum." Quoting Rifter: Quote:
If you want moderated discussion ("OK, children, everybody make nice and get along now, hear?") stay out. If you aren't adult enough to handle a serious discussion you shouldn't be there in the first place. If by "serious discussion" you include personal attacks, then I guess we differ in how we think about serious discussions. I also don't think a person's willingness to indulge in or endure personal attacks has anything to do with their level of maturity level. I very much enjoy serious disucssion, I just don't see why it has to come with a side of verbal assault. KM | | | Tags, tags, bo bags, banana fana fo fags, mi my mo mags, TAGS!
Dolly's not alone. You can also clone profiles.
You've got questions? You've got answers? Take the DVD Profiler Wiki for a spin. |
| | Registered: March 19, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,014 |
| | Posted: | | | | Exactly.
I don't see why what some people call "serious discussions" should lead to a lack of simple common decency. On these forums, all too often it does. Now that's what I would call "lack of maturity". |
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Invelos Forums->General: Website Discussion |
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