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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5  Previous   Next
Discussion on International titles vs. Original title for the Main Title field for Asian Films
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
Registered: June 17, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,328
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Quoting whispering:
Quote:
The thing i never understood about you, xradman, is that you are insisting on bending the rules so that false information could be added. Why the hell dont you use that energy for the thing you really are asking for, a slot for an alternative title.

You are considering yourself superioir to all other users, go check forums on any genre, you well begin to see a pattern, people want to use the original title. Cause no matter where you go, that will always be the one used, it will always be correct. And this is just from the "buying from other localitys" POV. We really shouldnt forget the fact that these are other localitys that do not use english as the chosen language. Also you are referring to China, Japan and Korea, when in reality this rule of yours would affect dozens of localitys, just so that the English speaking people that buy their movies from Asia, could have them in english (oh the irony).


Whispering,

Please explain how official international title such as "Sympathy for Lady Vengeance" is false information.  I am all for an alternative title field and have asked for such previously. But this is not the forum for feature requests. This is a forum for Contribution Discussion.  I think this discussion belongs here.  I think, perhaps wrongly, that English is the defacto international language. It is in academia, finances, medicine, etc.  I wasn't the one who came up with English international titles. It was the film makers. Hey, if the international title is in Swahili, I am all for it.
My Home Theater
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
Registered: June 17, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,328
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Quoting whispering:
Quote:
A title that is used to promote the movie for western distributors is hardly official.


Last time I checked, many movies had English titles next to local titles in the opening screen (and this is not a special version made for the foreign English market). If that's not official, I don't know what is.
My Home Theater
 Last edited: by xradman
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
Registered: June 17, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,328
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Quoting whispering:
Quote:
A title that is used to promote the movie for western distributors is hardly official.



This is the opening title screen for R3 Korean DVD of this movie.


This is the cover of the R3 Korean DVD of this movie.
Please tell me how this is not official.
My Home Theater
 Last edited: by xradman
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwhispering
On ne passe pas!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 1,380
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Quoting xradman:
Quote:
I think, perhaps wrongly, that English is the defacto international language. It is in academia, finances, medicine, etc.  I wasn't the one who came up with English international titles. It was the film makers. Hey, if the international title is in Swahili, I am all for it.


English is very widely used, it is not however "in academia, finances, medicine, etc." just the fact that 2 of those words arent even english per se kinda waters down that statement

There can be dozens of titles, hell they could add them all in the opening credits, but the movies Title, the one that the people read in the country of the movie and DVD is the one used. It doesnt matter in what words you dress it, its the correct one.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
Registered: June 17, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,328
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Whispering,

Can you give me an example where proposal that I outline below would be detrimental for any locality?

For DVD of a movie from that locality (ie Korean DVD of Korean movie)

  Main title: Local title or romanized version of the local title
  Original title: Official international title (if we relax the rule to allow original or alternate title)

ps. I can find academia, finance, and medicine in my English dictionary. If you are going to say that the origins of these words are based on some other language, then we are getting into a slippery slope that has no answer.
My Home Theater
 Last edited: by xradman
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Xradman:

The screenshot is useful and brings to mind  a comment or two. Of course, ideally the program would support use of Asian characters. There are two choices as I see it until such time as the program might support the characaters. I presume that "Sympathy for Lady Vengeance" represents some form of translation of the Oriental (Asian) script. If you want to provide a translation, the who gets to determine what the CORRECT translation...hmmm where have I seen this before...bad idea. The only other thing I can see is phonetic spelling of the Oriental(Asian) characters, which I think, though I am not sure, is fairly common practice.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwhispering
On ne passe pas!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 1,380
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Quoting xradman:
Quote:
Whispering,

Can you give me an example where proposal that I outline below would be detrimental for any locality?

For DVD of a movie from that locality (ie Korean DVD of Korean movie)

  Main title: Local title or romanized version of the local title
  Original title: Official international title (if we relax the rule to allow original or alternate title)

ps. I can find academia, finance, and medicine in my English dictionary. If you are going to say that the origins of these words are based on some other language, then we are getting into a slippery slope that has no answer.


I'll give you an example, a movie lets say "She's All That" is released here (Finland) it is localised as "Sinussa on se jokin" The opening has the title in English, yet we, finnish users still prefer our own title to be used. Up comes a fellow called Trinitron (among with hes, i'm guessing, 100's of aliases) and changes the title and overview to English. We all know how much work people have gone through to force the correct information in. What you are suggesting, is that he, all along was right. Because apparently English is "defacto international language", so the rest of the happy funtimeing world should stop speaking with the only language they use in daily life and start speaking english, cause there just might be a guy like xradman buying DVD's from that country.

I am sick and tired of this topic popping up on behalf of you, I have requested an "alternative title" field, i dont remember you doing the same. Stop trying to bend the rules for your preferences, and go to the feature request area and ask an option for the title you seem to need.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantPeter von Frosta
Registered: March 14, 2007
Germany Posts: 452
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Quoting schultzy:
Quote:
It made sense in my head and the voices agreed.

If movie is Desu Noto and that is the creditted title and Original title then it goes in the Title field
If it is creditted as Death Note (which is the US/international title) then that would go in the title field and Desu Noto woul dgo in the Original Title field.

Desu Noto is just the phonetic representation of Death Note, so isn't actually Death Note more accurate?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantPeter von Frosta
Registered: March 14, 2007
Germany Posts: 452
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What I don't understand, there are BOTH titles on the cover (and in the credits), I see no problem entering the international title in the title field and the original title (which isn't the real original title anyway) in the original title field.
Otherwise there wouldn't be a single german DVD which had a german title for the title field, since most DVDs are mastered from their international master.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsynnerman
Take me with you. Please.
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 735
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Quoting Peter von Frosta:
Quote:
What I don't understand, there are BOTH titles on the cover (and in the credits), I see no problem entering the international title in the title field and the original title (which isn't the real original title anyway) in the original title field.
Otherwise there wouldn't be a single german DVD which had a german title for the title field, since most DVDs are mastered from their international master.


Amen.

I think some common sense should be used here.  Both titles are getting represented in the system.  When I order a film that is already in the database, I add it to my ordered list using the "Search by film title" option.  This is often difficult when someone has put it under an arbitrary phoentic spelling, compared to the officially sanctioned International title the film was given (and is sold under by the native country's retailers).  Who does it hurt to give people the option?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantPeter von Frosta
Registered: March 14, 2007
Germany Posts: 452
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Only if the international title is given on the cover and/or credits of course.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwhispering
On ne passe pas!
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting Peter von Frosta:
Quote:
Desu Noto is just the phonetic representation of Death Note, so isn't actually Death Note more accurate?

Yea, same way as e.g. phobia is phonetic representation of the greek word f?ß?? doesnt mean that phobia would be incorrect.

Quoting synner_man:
Quote:
I think some common sense should be used here.  Both titles are getting represented in the system.  When I order a film that is already in the database, I add it to my ordered list using the "Search by film title" option.  This is often difficult when someone has put it under an arbitrary phoentic spelling, compared to the officially sanctioned International title the film was given (and is sold under by the native country's retailers).  Who does it hurt to give people the option?


Well for starters i dont actually know where its being sold as "Symphaty for Lady Vengeance" in UK and US its known as "Lady Vengeance". I havent used many asian DVD stores, but at least SeoulSelection and YesAsia use Chinjeolhan Geumjassi. Then theres always IMDB.

Quoting Peter von Frosta:
Quote:
Otherwise there wouldn't be a single german DVD which had a german title for the title field, since most DVDs are mastered from their international master.


Do you add the german title to the original title field?
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorschultzy
Xbox Live: squeekyfoot
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 550
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Quoting Peter von Frosta:
Quote:

Desu Noto is just the phonetic representation of Death Note, so isn't actually Death Note more accurate?


When I first gave the example I stated that Desu Noto wasn't the title just used as an example.

As for what to use, I don't know outside of having Ken add another field for alternate or internation title, but this just going to cause issues as well.  My japanese movies are in my collection by the title in the credits which drives me nuts at times because I forget things like Odoru daisousasen is Bayside Shakedown.  But that is what it is.
Schultzy - http://www.michaelschultz.net
grenactics - The art of skillfully fraggin one’s opponent with the use of grenades or other compact explosive devices that are thrown by hand or projected.
 Last edited: by schultzy
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar Contributorschultzy
Xbox Live: squeekyfoot
Registered: March 13, 2007
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double post... opps
Schultzy - http://www.michaelschultz.net
grenactics - The art of skillfully fraggin one’s opponent with the use of grenades or other compact explosive devices that are thrown by hand or projected.
 Last edited: by schultzy
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
Registered: June 17, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,328
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Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
Xradman:

The screenshot is useful and brings to mind  a comment or two. Of course, ideally the program would support use of Asian characters. There are two choices as I see it until such time as the program might support the characaters. I presume that "Sympathy for Lady Vengeance" represents some form of translation of the Oriental (Asian) script. If you want to provide a translation, the who gets to determine what the CORRECT translation...hmmm where have I seen this before...bad idea. The only other thing I can see is phonetic spelling of the Oriental(Asian) characters, which I think, though I am not sure, is fairly common practice.

Skip


Sympathy for Lady Vengeance is not a translation of the local Korean title. Local Korean title when translated is "Kind Ms. Geum-ja". Sympathy for Lady Vengeance is an official title by the director of the film Park, Chan-wuk. It is the third film in his trilogy of revenge films, first two being Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance (Boksuneun Naeui Geot) and Oldboy.  It's a very good film, and you might give it a rental if you haven't seen it.  There is a R1 USA version of this movie titled Lady Vengeance.

International title is international title. There is no ambiguity as to what CORRECT international title is based on above screen shots.
My Home Theater
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantxradman
Registered: June 17, 2002
Registered: March 14, 2007
United States Posts: 1,328
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Quoting whispering:
Quote:
I'll give you an example, a movie lets say "She's All That" is released here (Finland) it is localised as "Sinussa on se jokin" The opening has the title in English, yet we, finnish users still prefer our own title to be used. Up comes a fellow called Trinitron (among with hes, i'm guessing, 100's of aliases) and changes the title and overview to English. We all know how much work people have gone through to force the correct information in. What you are suggesting, is that he, all along was right. Because apparently English is "defacto international language", so the rest of the happy funtimeing world should stop speaking with the only language they use in daily life and start speaking english, cause there just might be a guy like xradman buying DVD's from that country.

I am sick and tired of this topic popping up on behalf of you, I have requested an "alternative title" field, i dont remember you doing the same. Stop trying to bend the rules for your preferences, and go to the feature request area and ask an option for the title you seem to need.


Whispering,

Please do not get angry. First of all this is a hobby for all of us and there is no reason to get personal. I've probably spent way more time here already than I should have. But let me try to clear up any misunderstanding.

First, Finnish DVD of "She's All That" is an American movie sold in Finland. So it has no bearing on our discussion. Presumably the main title would be "Sinussa on se jokin" (correct title for locality) and original title would be "She's All That". I don't think this is too hard to understand, and if there is a troublemaker causing havok with Finnish DVDs, then that is unfortunate.

The issue is with Finnish DVD of a Finnish movie. I had to go on Google and search for Finnish movie to come up with this. Let's say that there is a Finnish DVD of "Kuutamosonaatti", a movie released in Finland in 1988.  The movie is also known by it's international title of "The Moonlight Sonata" according to the Finnish film archive (http://www.sea.fi/english/cinema.html). 

What is so offensive about entering "Kuutamosonaatti" as the main title and "The Moonlight Sonata" as an alternative title (in the original title field per proposal that I outlined earlier)?  Before you have a heart attack, this is only an example and I am not going to change anything at this time, until this is blessed by Ken and the DVDP community
My Home Theater
 Last edited: by xradman
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