Welcome to the Invelos forums. Please read the forum rules before posting.

Read access to our public forums is open to everyone. To post messages, a free registration is required.

If you have an Invelos account, sign in to post.

    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next
Box Set Question: Do we include or not the Video data in the main parent profile?
Author Message
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributoriPatsa
Aficionado since 1999
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,028
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I can live with them, or without them. I just find the submissions removing them utterly pointless.
Patrik
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMikaLove
Knowledge is Power
Registered: May 2, 2009
Posts: 348
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting iPatsa:
Quote:
I can live with them, or without them. I just find the submissions removing them utterly pointless.

I completely agree. It's a bit of a waste of time.
And wading through them all must take a long time. I was also slightly annoyed seeing so many profiles to review before voting as well.

Although, I may have been contradicting myself, as when I look to those box sets I myself have created and contributed, I have left the main profiles empty. So I guess this is how it should be.
But I still think it's a least a little bit a waste of time to fix this now, so many years later. I'm guessing there must be thousands of box sets to edit.
GLHF, I guess.

Maybe there should be a tick box for creating box set profiles altogether, so we didn't have to enter more than production data and media company (and release info). For one thing, having video format on a box set is most often not only superfluous, but also confusing.
Well. I think I have ultimately changed my mind about this. So I'm changing all my no votes to yes. And I have even myself just contributed a box set title to remove data... But I don't think I will bother will all of them.
 Last edited: by MikaLove
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 1,292
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Yes, the box set rules do state to exclude the "subtitles, audio & disc features", but the video data is also not one of "the following Clarifications to the standard Rules" for box sets.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,377
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I have a (mostly) theoretical objection to adding common properties to the parent profile.

Good database practices dictate that information should not be duplicated, i.e. a specific piece of information should not be stored in several places. In other contexts violating this principle can have serious consequences. Here they are marginal. But let me give you an example:

You have a boxset with 4 movies that are all anamorphic widescreen 2.35:1, so you enter that info in the parent. Later someone realizes that one of the films is not anamorphic after all, so they update the profile. But they may not realize that this also affects the parent, so the don't update that. Now we have conflicting information. The parent profile says the movie is anamorphic, the child profile says it is not. If someone downloads just the parent to check it out before buying, this could lead them to buy something that they wouldn't otherwise buy.

Admittedly, this is a rather farfetched scenario. But it exemplifies why it is not a good thing to populate the parent with common properties from the child profiles. So, even though the consequences may be negligible, I don't like it.
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNosferatu
Registered: March 24, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 185
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Because a parent profile is basically an empty box and all the information – except the packaging data (title, rating details, overview) – belongs to the child profiles, I think the profiles should be largely devoid of data, from video to audio to genres.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMikaLove
Knowledge is Power
Registered: May 2, 2009
Posts: 348
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Nosferatu:
Quote:
Because a parent profile is basically an empty box and all the information – except the packaging data (title, rating details, overview) – belongs to the child profiles, I think the profiles should be largely devoid of data, from video to audio to genres.

I think that the mentioned above is the only data that should be on a box set.
I am even reserved about including "rating details" in text for a whole set of movies among which that can differ. E.g. "Strong Language and Moderate Horror".
Also, I am reserved and were actually always against the rule to type in the production year for the oldest title in the set. (Why do that?) As well as country of origin, which definitely also can vary among the movies.
Production studios and genres should also be empty, for sure, along with any sort of Video Format data, just to rule out any confusion and to stay consistent, if anything.
In other words I think the rules for box sets need an update.
 Last edited: by MikaLove
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRutan
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Australia Posts: 1,428
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting VirusPil:
Quote:
Quoting Scooter1836:
Quote:
Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
If the box set section in the rules does not contain an exception for a data element, standard rules apply.  So both dimension and color use standard rules for box sets.


What this means, based on the discussion in the thread is that 2D and color is supposed to exist on multi-film box sets

http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=605875&PageNum=1&messageID=1766305#M1766305


Thank you. (Made your link click-able)


Restating the decision made by Ken Cole.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorNosferatu
Registered: March 24, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United Kingdom Posts: 185
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting MikaLove:
Quote:
Quoting Nosferatu:
Quote:
Because a parent profile is basically an empty box and all the information – except the packaging data (title, rating details, overview) – belongs to the child profiles, I think the profiles should be largely devoid of data, from video to audio to genres.

I think that the mentioned above is the only data that should be on a box set.
I am even reserved about including "rating details" in text for a whole set of movies among which that can differ. E.g. "Strong Language and Moderate Horror".
Also, I am reserved and were actually always against the rule to type in the production year for the oldest title in the set. (Why do that?) As well as country of origin, which definitely also can vary among the movies.
Production studios and genres should also be empty, for sure, along with any sort of Video Format data, just to rule out any confusion and to stay consistent, if anything.
In other words I think the rules for box sets need an update.

I agree that the rules need an update. At present, if there is a box set with an 18 certificate for (to use your example) "Strong Language and Moderate Horror", but the set contains a PG certificate comedy, the rules say that it must have the same rating as the parent. This would be patently absurd and the rules should be designed to reflect a situation like that.

I have submitted contributions (which have all been approved) where the overview on the parent profile has a paragraph or two for each film and I have put child profiles with only the corresponding section from the parent's overview. That makes sense to me and, seemingly, to the people responsible for screening the contributions.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorGSyren
Profiling since 2001
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
Sweden Posts: 3,377
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Nosferatu:
Quote:
At present, if there is a box set with an 18 certificate for (to use your example) "Strong Language and Moderate Horror", but the set contains a PG certificate comedy, the rules say that it must have the same rating as the parent.

Really? Where does it say that?
My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorrdodolak
Registered: March 18, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 1,292
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
[i][/i]Quoting Nosferatu:
Quote:
Because a parent profile is basically an empty box and all the information – except the packaging data (title, rating details, overview) – belongs to the child profiles, I think the profiles should be largely devoid of data, from video to audio to genres.


So we are profiling empty boxes now. 

We obviously see flaws, none of which we'll all agree on, due to the evolution of the software over the years.

In my opinion, disc profiles and release profiles should be two different, distinct things.  As it stands right now they all use the same tables (and forms), with all available fields, and are essentially the same when it comes to the profile level.  Some fields should only ever be available to release profiles (packaging and release details, cover art, SRP, media companies, etc.) and the others should only ever be available to disc profiles.  We'd also need a separate profile/section for film specific information (production year, film rating, CoO, OAR, theatrical/release studio, production companies, etc.) which doesn't change based on individual discs or releases.  I would envision that each would have their own separate tables (and forms).
 Last edited: by rdodolak
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAndyEN
Registered: May 25, 2007
Posts: 43
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
A couple reasons to keep genre: it makes sense of a box set's theme is Comedy or Horror to keep that info, as sometimes individual movies within a themed set don't fit the overall theme perfectly. Not that i can think of any examples Mill Creek releases but I'm sure such exist. Perhaps more importantly though if a box set has adult material but not an Adult rating, Adult needs to remain as a genre so that kiddies don't see such uploaded material.
 Last edited: by AndyEN
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 16,697
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
See what Ken himself said about this situation... I urge you to withdraw the contributions...

Quoting Ken Cole:
Quote:
If the box set section in the rules does not contain an exception for a data element, standard rules apply.  So both dimension and color use standard rules for box sets.
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 16,697
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I just wanted to publically say Thank You for withdrawing the contributions you made. 
Pete
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorCubbyUps
Registered: March 14, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
United States Posts: 4,024
Posted:
PM this userView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I was going to bring this up in the Contribution Rules Committee section but why bother.

The rules haven't been updated in 3 years, so it would be a waste of time.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorMikaLove
Knowledge is Power
Registered: May 2, 2009
Posts: 348
Posted:
PM this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
Quoting Addicted2DVD:
Quote:
I just wanted to publically say Thank You for withdrawing the contributions you made. 

So now you're feeling free to add this (IMO rather random) data to all box set profiles?

I can just say that I do not agree with this rule and Ken wrote this 7 years ago.
Is he even running this show any more?
No updates for any of the software or the rules for ages.
Time to think ahead, if you ask me.
What's so necessary with AR on a box set?
You can and will use this data for the child profiles anyway. I always thought this is confusing and for some box sets, not all movies have the same AR even.
Same for rating, as I mentioned.

I'm starting to just want to facepalm over all this.
 Last edited: by MikaLove
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorAddicted2DVD
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Superior Rating
United States Posts: 16,697
Posted:
PM this userEmail this userVisit this user's homepageView this user's DVD collectionDirect link to this postReply with quote
I am adding it... It is what ken clarified the rules to mean... so for the online database that is what it must be,.
Pete
    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3  Previous   Next