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    Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4 5 ...8  Previous   Next
New Xbox 360 Elite, no HD DVD
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting mnemo:
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It's a 2.5" (notebook) SATA hard drive. Most people seem to compare the price to 3.5" drives, which is wrong. External 2.5" drives can still be had for less than $180, of course.

We both know MS has a proprietary interface.  MS didn't have to do that.  Unless you have the particular star tool needed to open and replace that drive (if you can), you can't get to it.  That shows how far they are willing to go to make you buy their HDDs and headsets and re-charger kits, etc.

On the PS3, you just buy any 2.5" SATA hard drive and slap it in...100GB...120GB...160GB...whatever.  a 120GB 2.5" SATA drive would cost me $77 shipped from Pricewatch.com.  Does anyone know the retail price for MS's 120GB HDD?  Whatever it is I'm sure MS will make a lot more profit per unit than the sellers at Pricewatch.com (or your local computer store for that matter).

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Having the hard drive separate from the console was a mistake. Microsoft always explains that it gives a choice to the customer, but it's still a crippled system.

Yeah, it's clear that MS rushed this system to market without much future-proofing.

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Oh, and regarding the disc size: I think that argument is moot. All movies in Resistance for example are full-motion video. Of course that takes much space when stored in 1080 resolution. In my opinion, it's much better to have movies with in-game engine graphics anyway. And using that I'm sure that even MGS4 would fit on a dual-layer DVD. Dead Rising has LOTS of story sequences, all in-game, with motion captured movements and the game is about 6 GB, I think. Video just BURNS space.

You think a game close to 50GB large could be reduced to a dual layer DVD without losing a huge amount of functionality?  I wonder what Kojima has to say about that.

'The PS3 is like the theatre, it's a little bit high-priced but it has to be high quality as well. The 360 is a DVD, it still needs to be high quality but you need more variations, while the Wii is almost like a TV channel, because every game you have it with your family'.

'But like I said, MGS4 is aimed for the movie theatre, it's aimed for the PS3, so the game's scenario and graphics need this theatre-type hardware. It's when a producer has a game that can work on the 'DVD level' that a game will go multiplatform', he says.
To err is human...
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMatrixMan07
Registered: April 2, 2007
Posts: 7
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Most retailers are going to sell the Xbox 360 120gb hard drive for $70, so that's cheaper than the $77 you stated as being a great price for a hard drive of that size.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantmnemo
Zuma!
Registered: March 17, 2007
Germany Posts: 82
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Yeah, it's clear that MS rushed this system to market without much future-proofing.

At least it has rumble. He, he.

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You think a game close to 50GB large could be reduced to a dual layer DVD without losing a huge amount of functionality?

Isn't this x or y gigabyte nonsense irrelevant? You can make games in 64 KILObytes that have more playability than other that take 2 DVDs. It's too easy to fill any disc size with video. Maybe in the previous year high-quality textures are beginning to take more space, but even then it's easy to fill the space when you don't compress them. The pure number alone ("My game is X GB") has no meaning.

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'The PS3 is like the theatre...'

Marketing BS by the producer. *shrug* You won't get any real facts in interviews like these.
Samsung UE55C6200, Yamaha RX-V2067, Xbox 360, PS3.
 Last edited: by mnemo
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
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Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting MatrixMan07:
Quote:
Most retailers are going to sell the Xbox 360 120gb hard drive for $70, so that's cheaper than the $77 you stated as being a great price for a hard drive of that size.

Well, that would be a switch from the norm of selling $100 20GB HDDs and $100 wireless adapters.  So, could you provide a link?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantgraymadder
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 103
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Quoting MatrixMan07:
Quote:
Most retailers are going to sell the Xbox 360 120gb hard drive for $70, so that's cheaper than the $77 you stated as being a great price for a hard drive of that size.


I am not sure what retailers you are talking about, but all the ones that I checked out are listing it at $179.99. Because it isn't out yet, some sites may be hard to find the item. The easiest is at BestBuy.com
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting mnemo:
Quote:
At least it has rumble. He, he.

Yep, but not much else, even when compared to the Wii. 

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Isn't this x or y gigabyte nonsense irrelevant?

Not by a longshot.  If what you said were true, we would still have great games on CDs.  I don't see any Xbox fans willing to go back to CD-ROMs for their games.  That tells me that Xbox fans don't really believe that themselves.  I believe that just makes Xbox360 feel better about the ideology they bought into.  The fact is that space is a crucial issue in a society that always requires more space to do bigger things.  This goes back to when people said you would never need more than 640KB memory.  That is the same school of thought you are trying to push here.  Remember, the PS3 should be around for at least 8 years.  In this case, time will be the teacher.  I use to be in that same school of thought many years ago.

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'The PS3 is like the theatre...'
Marketing BS by the producer. *shrug* You won't get any real facts in interviews like these.

Yeah, I mean he is only the creator, right?  What does he know about size constraints?
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
 Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHFactor
Is this program dead?
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
United States Posts: 188
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Build a man a fire and you keep him warm for a day.  Set a man on fire and you keep him warm the rest of his life.
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantmnemo
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Registered: March 17, 2007
Germany Posts: 82
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Quoting mnemo:
Quote:
At least it has rumble. He, he.

Yep, but not much else, even when compared to the Wii. 

If you think so.

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Not by a longshot.  If what you said were true, we would still have great games on CDs.

No, we wouldn't, because the graphics HAVE improved in the meantime and alone the textures of current games wouldn't fit on a CD-ROM and that's not including the 3D models.

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This goes back to when people said you would never need more than 640KB memory.  That is the same school of thought you are trying to push here.

That's not what I'm saying, I only said size doesn't mean quality and I suspect that most of the space on the Blu-ray discs is occupied by videos.

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Remember, the PS3 should be around for at least 8 years.

Let's talk again in 8 year, then, see how it went.

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Yeah, I mean he is only the creator, right?  What does he know about size constraints?

What do you expect in such an interview? He can't say how it is. Even if the game would fit on a DVD without movies, he couldn't say. The game SELLS the PS3. It's the same with other games that are only available for one platform. They can't say "Oh, of course, we can do it on that other platform".
Samsung UE55C6200, Yamaha RX-V2067, Xbox 360, PS3.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting mnemo:
Quote:
If you think so.

Do you want to put together a list of features?

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No, we wouldn't, because the graphics HAVE improved in the meantime and alone the textures of current games wouldn't fit on a CD-ROM and that's not including the 3D models.

Now, we're getting somewhere!  So, as time pass games increase in complexity and that complexity requires space?  That's what you're saying, right?

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That's not what I'm saying, I only said size doesn't mean quality and I suspect that most of the space on the Blu-ray discs is occupied by videos.

Suspecting is fun, but how do you propose we find out?  I'm thinking textures in 1080p takes a good amount of space along with more varied and detailed audio sound bites (so you don't hear the same lines over and over and hear them and everything else crisply).  Then, I would also believe that larger worlds increase the need for space as well, but then again I'm not a game programmer.

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Let's talk again in 8 year, then, see how it went.

Well, since the PS3 did have a better start than the PS2 and Xbox 360, I would say at least half of the
PS2's 118+million users should have a PS3 by then.  I'm being pretty conservative, well, at least according to THIS ARTICLE.
Quote:
What do you expect in such an interview? He can't say how it is. Even if the game would fit on a DVD without movies, he couldn't say. The game SELLS the PS3. It's the same with other games that are only available for one platform. They can't say "Oh, of course, we can do it on that other platform".

The Devil May Cry group did. 
To err is human...
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
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Here's some quick news about Burnout 5 coming to Xbox 360 and PS3.  The full article can be found here.

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Burnout 5 may be released on both the PS3 and Xbox 360, but for the Criterion team, the PS3 version will be a huge focus.

While Ward did say, that it was simply to early to be able to accurately predict exactly what would be in either release, he noted that the team is attacking the PS3 with the same frequency they did the PS2 - one hell of a lot 1080p over HDMI, for instance, just isn’t possible on the Xbox 360 at this point, although its a foregone conclusion on the PS3. The PS3’s Sixaxis Controller will provide additional control options the Xbox 360 doesn’t have. Plus, the PS3’s advanced processing capabilities make it particularly suited for the physics intensive crashes that are going to be taking place.

Don’t take these words from developer Criterion the wrong way Xbox 360 fans, because (unlike PS3 gamers) at least while racing you’ll get rumble feedback!

I forgot to mention that rumble is coming back soon on the PS3.

It seems that MS has created another problem by creating the Xbox Elite.  The Xbox360 games will be designed for the Lowest Common Denominator for it's own platform.

Here are some screenshots...



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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorFunkyLA
Will you remove your hat?
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 1,136
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Strange to point this out - the PS3 is already having its price cut in some UK shops.... not a good sign of massive sales 
Signature? We don't need no stinking... hang on, this has been done... blast [oooh now in Widescreen]
Ah... well you see.... I thought I'd say something more interesting... but cannot think of anything..... oh well
And to those of you who have disabled viewing of these signature files "hello" (or not) Registered: July 27, 2004
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting FunkyLA:
Quote:
Strange to point this out - the PS3 is already having its price cut in some UK shops.... not a good sign of massive sales 

You're slightly off-subject, but I will go there with you.

I thought the good sign in the UK was the fact that the PS3 broke EVERY console sales records (over 3 times as many as the Xbox360 at launch).  Oh well...

While I'm off-subject, I might as well just put this in one post.

Video of Real-Time Ray Tracing with 3 PS3s!

This shows how powerful the PS3 really is.  If you don't know about Real-time Ray Tracing, please look it up so you can FULLY understand how impressive this is (3 PCs, Xbox 360s, and definitely not Wiis could do this)!  It's not even using 3 of the SPEs or the Nvidia RSXs!  Simply amazing! 
To err is human...
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantCalidain
You're no Daisy at all!
Registered: March 16, 2007
Posts: 405
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I seriously hate SONY fanboys!!!
My Collection!!!
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Highest Rating
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Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:

While I'm off-subject, I might as well just put this in one post.

Video of Real-Time Ray Tracing with 3 PS3s!

This shows how powerful the PS3 really is.  If you don't know about Real-time Ray Tracing, please look it up so you can FULLY understand how impressive this is (3 PCs, Xbox 360s, and definitely not Wiis could do this)!  It's not even using 3 of the SPEs or the Nvidia RSXs!  Simply amazing! 


Really?  You couldn't do this on 1, 2 or even 3 PC's?  So nobody has done any real-time Ray Tracing before this?

That being said, does anyone really think this is a selling point for the PS3?  I am debating on which system to buy.  Should I throw this into the equation or should I stick to my original plan of choosing which one to buy based on the games I want to play. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorsnarbo
Registered: March 13, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 1,242
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:

While I'm off-subject, I might as well just put this in one post.

Video of Real-Time Ray Tracing with 3 PS3s!

This shows how powerful the PS3 really is.  If you don't know about Real-time Ray Tracing, please look it up so you can FULLY understand how impressive this is (3 PCs, Xbox 360s, and definitely not Wiis could do this)!  It's not even using 3 of the SPEs or the Nvidia RSXs!  Simply amazing! 


Really?  You couldn't do this on 1, 2 or even 3 PC's?  So nobody has done any real-time Ray Tracing before this?

That being said, does anyone really think this is a selling point for the PS3?  I am debating on which system to buy.  Should I throw this into the equation or should I stick to my original plan of choosing which one to buy based on the games I want to play. 



Don't be silly Unicus, to be really future proof you need to get a Dragon 32  

Steve
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAscended_Saiyan
A Blu-ray crack fiend
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 1,127
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Quoting Calidain:
Quote:
I seriously hate SONY fanboys!!!

Well, I know that doesn't apply to me, because the PS3 is my first Sony console.  The only other Sony products I had before the PS3 was a Sony VHS player and a walkman.

I don't like people that just hates a product because Microsoft told them to (directly or indirectly) through misinformation.  I like truth.  I guess some people just like to believe lies.

Remember, I followed someone else of the beaten path.  The sole purpose of that statement was to try to convince people that PS3 sales weren't doing well, so they HAD to cut prices by 100 pounds.  Did you see Xbox or MS anywhere in his post?  How can some people be sooo blind?
To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles
 Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan
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