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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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Which name fields do you prefer? |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 810 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheFly: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
In the case of American names the two name system would be wrong 98% of the time...with no way to correct it.
What? No it wouldn't. Americans have given and family names just like pretty much everyone else in the world. In almost all cases it would not be hard to work out (perhaps with a little research) which names would go where.
I really don't understand where you're coming from with this "Euros trying to enforce their culture" theory. My proposed system is trying to prevent cultural differences from destroying database integrity. And far from forcing European conventions on everyone, from a data perspective my system would actually be most beneficial for Asian names. Skip likes to think that he view of the rules or program features should be the only view. If he is happy with a rule or program feature he tells the rest of us that we should be happy with the way it is and keep quite. If he is unhappy with a rule or program feature he tells us over and over how it should be changed. pdf | | | Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Anything but don't dare try to address what Skip has said. Because you CAN'T. I am not going to engage in this garbage any more. All I keep serein is about culture not about data and by the way Fly you are DEAD wrong relative to American naming conventions, we do use middle names and double-barrelled First or Last names remain fairly uncommon. Skip  | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 18, 2007 |  Posts: 103 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
All I keep serein is about culture not about data and by the way Fly you are DEAD wrong relative to American naming conventions, we do use middle names and double-barrelled First or Last names remain fairly uncommon. That's fine but they're still given and family names. The two naming schemes are not mutually exclusive. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 858 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheFly: Quote:
Because of cultural name order differences, the first/middle/last system gives us multiple databases entries for the same person (e.g. Gong Li and Li Gong). My preferred given/family system gets around this, as the person would always be entered the same no matter how the name is syntactically displayed on screen. Therefore it is less subject to cultural differences than your preferred system, and has the massive benefit of giving us a consistent database. But if you use Given Name Family name you still expect people to know which is which. So you still could have two options. If you use the ONSCREEN date in a one name field you always know which one to use, in case of asian names you just use the CLT to determine the common name (Gong Li or Li Gong) and use credited as. but she'll always be linked. This is especially helpfull with longer asian names like Tony Leung Chiu Wai which can be parsed T/LCW of T/LC/W or even T/CW/L (CLT 15/27) if you have to guess his family name. If you use on screen date and you find TLCW it's always that, if on screen it's TCWL you just find the common names usinf CLT and use TLCW [TCWL] and everyone is linked. Paul |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | A lot of problems could be solved by having one single name field but then adding a sort field for that name, like we currently do for titles.
So we would have "Helena Bonham Carter" sorted by "Bonham Carter, Helena" or "Gong Li" sorted by "Li, Gong" etc.
That way, the parsing problems would go but we would still be able to sort by last name. The sort field could also be local only to stop ping-ponging contributions. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 858 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
A lot of problems could be solved by having one single name field but then adding a sort field for that name, like we currently do for titles.
So we would have "Helena Bonham Carter" sorted by "Bonham Carter, Helena" or "Gong Li" sorted by "Li, Gong" etc.
That way, the parsing problems would go but we would still be able to sort by last name. The sort field could also be local only to stop ping-ponging contributions. I couldn't agree more. Paul |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 2,366 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
The sort field could also be local only to stop ping-ponging contributions. So for every name I have to personally change the order in the program to be able to find the right last name? No, thanks. | | | Martin Zuidervliet
DVD Profiler Nederlands | | | | Last edited: by Daddy DVD |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
A lot of problems could be solved by having one single name field but then adding a sort field for that name, like we currently do for titles.
So we would have "Helena Bonham Carter" sorted by "Bonham Carter, Helena" or "Gong Li" sorted by "Li, Gong" etc.
That way, the parsing problems would go but we would still be able to sort by last name. The sort field could also be local only to stop ping-ponging contributions. EDIT: Apart from the fact I would keep the data online, not just local, I like your idea.  | | | | -- Enry | | | | Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr. |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | According to someone, A/B/C is as data are on screen: the first word is the first name, the word in the middle is the middle name and the last word is the last name. Word counting, that is. For discussion sake, let's say he is right, or at least that that parsing is as good as any other, when we don't have a clue, so why not? But then, what's the problem with 2 name fields? Word counting (as a default choice when we don't have a clue) would work exactly in the same way. The "first name + middle name" field would contain A+B, and the "last name" field would contain "C". "As on screen"!  EDIT: Anyway, I would be quite happy with Northbloke's proposal. | | | | -- Enry | | | | Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,595 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
According to someone, A/B/C is as data are on screen: the first word is the first name, the word in the middle is the middle name and the last word is the last name. The Poll suggests that "According to someone" is the majority of users  . | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 17,329 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
A lot of problems could be solved by having one single name field but then adding a sort field for that name, like we currently do for titles.
So we would have "Helena Bonham Carter" sorted by "Bonham Carter, Helena" or "Gong Li" sorted by "Li, Gong" etc.
That way, the parsing problems would go but we would still be able to sort by last name. The sort field could also be local only to stop ping-ponging contributions.
Apart from the local/online issue, how is that different from having two field names? as he said... the parsing problems would go away... all of them. No guessing whether a name is the middle name or a double last name. I have seen a lot of times where a woman after marriage would drop their middle name all together and move their maiden name to their middle name and take the guy's last name as hers. So even though it looks like it is a double last name when written out... it is actually a middle and last name. So with the single field that searchable with substring search and with those sort options there is no more guess work or research needed... you enter what you see. no more... no less. Makes sense to me at least. So if we were to get a change... the single field is what I would want. Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
According to someone, A/B/C is as data are on screen: the first word is the first name, the word in the middle is the middle name and the last word is the last name. Word counting, that is.
For discussion sake, let's say he is right, or at least that that parsing is as good as any other, when we don't have a clue, so why not?
But then, what's the problem with 2 name fields?
Word counting (as a default choice when we don't have a clue) would work exactly in the same way.
The "first name + middle name" field would contain A+B, and the "last name" field would contain "C".
"As on screen"! If it can be done with 1 field... then what advantage is there to having 2 fields? Yet there is a disadvantage... even with the word counting method... you will get some wrong... then someone needs to do the research to document the change to fix it. (in cases where you think a middle name is actually a double last name). With the single field that goes away completely. | | | | Pete |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
According to someone, A/B/C is as data are on screen: the first word is the first name, the word in the middle is the middle name and the last word is the last name.
The Poll suggests that "According to someone" is the majority of users . The Poll also suggests that 40 users would get rid of the middle name field (either to simplify to 1 field or 2 fields), vs. 37 who would keep it. | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Addicted2DVD: Quote:
as he said... the parsing problems would go away... all of them. No guessing whether a name is the middle name or a double last name.
[...] I've now edited my previous post to show agreement with Northbloke's idea. Quote:
If it can be done with 1 field... then what advantage is there to having 2 fields?
[....] Again, I agree with Northbloke: 1 field plus a sorting field (where I would enter the Family Name). | | | | -- Enry | | | | Last edited: by White Pongo, Jr. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,595 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote:
Quoting EnryWiki:
Quote:
According to someone, A/B/C is as data are on screen: the first word is the first name, the word in the middle is the middle name and the last word is the last name.
The Poll suggests that "According to someone" is the majority of users .
The Poll also suggests that 40 users would get rid of the middle name field (either to simplify to 1 field or 2 fields), vs. 37 who would keep it. Nice try . | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: August 22, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 1,807 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
Nice try .  | | | | -- Enry |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,201 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting EnryWiki: Quote:
According to someone, A/B/C is as data are on screen: the first word is the first name, the word in the middle is the middle name and the last word is the last name. Word counting, that is.
For discussion sake, let's say he is right, or at least that that parsing is as good as any other, when we don't have a clue, so why not?
But then, what's the problem with 2 name fields?
Word counting (as a default choice when we don't have a clue) would work exactly in the same way.
The "first name + middle name" field would contain A+B, and the "last name" field would contain "C".
"As on screen"!
EDIT: Anyway, I would be quite happy with Northbloke's proposal. I am fairly sure you are being sarcastic but I wanted to address this so that nobody got confused. This isn't really 'word counting'. It is more 'positional'. For two word names, there is no 'middle name'. There is a 'first name' and a 'last name'. That means it would be parsed 'first/ /last', not 'first/ last/ ' as you suggested above. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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